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Indian Real Estate prices: How I made fool of myself

Indian Real Estate has been one of the high riding sectors since 2002- 2003. After very bad ninetees decade, it has resurrected itself like never before. Infact, in last three to four years, the property market in India has zoomed by more than 300% in few cities. When I bought my first house in 2000 in Pune, India, the housing market was was just starting to show the glimpse of what was in store for future, however what followed over next 5-6 years has been beyond anyone’s expectation and has been a dream run for Indian construction Industry.

But what about the future ? Will it still keep going up the monemtum ? Will it remain constant ? or will it take a U turn ?
These are the million dollar questions for you and me.

My younger cousin called me yesterday from India. His builder had called him up to tell that the township where he had bought the 3 Bedroom flat was near completion and should recieve the possession in a month.

Why did he specifically call me and tell me this ?

It is because I had given him an advice against making the house investment last December. I told him “the property market has moved too high in a short period of time. It may just collapse. It may not be a good time for you to buy. You should see consolidation in property market shortly. Wait for 6 months to a year and you will get much lower rates”

How proud was he that he had made the right decision of buying the house because the real estate market in India is still going strong. Every one knows the success of Biggest real estate IPO in India “DLF”!

What he told me later was even more surprising. Last December, when he bought the flat, he got a rate Rs. 2300/- per sq. ft. (approx $60 psf ). During his recent visit to his apartment, he asked the builder about current rates. He was overjoyed to hear that rates had climbed to Rs. 3600/- per sq.ft. (approx $90 psf).
A huge jump of around 60% over December 06 rates !

I felt like hiding my face for the advice I had given him, it made me look so foolish.

So what advice will you give me, If I decide to book a new apartment in India, specifically Pune ?

You can leave your suggestion as a comment or go ahead and take a poll, it takes only a second !

Note: If you are viewing this post through your email or Rss reader please click here or here to vote.


About Arun Prabhudesai

Arun Prabhudesai is founder / chief editor at trak.in. He jumped the Entrepreneurship bandwagon in early 2008 after a long 13 year stint in I.T Industry. You can follow him on twitter @trakin and Facebook. Arun’s Google+ Profile

501 comments

  1. Unless and untill people wait to buy the property, its rates are not going to reduce. People should wait, then and then only builders will realize that there property is not worth selling at such a high price. What actually happens is that we go on buying with 80-85% home loans with banks. We don’t think of future, the rate of interest thats going to increase due to increasing inflation (thanks to our underperforming Govt. and also human nature for having short memory for they forgot everything after Anna Hazare struggle). The 15 years tenure for home loan goes to 20 years. The property that we bought goes to a lesser value than what we paid with principle + interest to bank. We don’t think these things. We just go on buying depending on home loans. Whats the result, builders think that we can pay, so they rise the price (thanks to their unity). What we think is that price may go more high, so we go searching and we book an apartment before anybody else do it. And then afterwards we come to know about rise in RR, rise in rate of interest. And the cycle continues. Just quoting that it will reduce will not do anything. Wait or not buy. This may do. Only solution is my friends, don’t buy till the builders association realize that the prices should be reduced. Have patience.

  2. Dear Friend, I am leaving in Pune since last 2.5 years on a renten basis and planning to buy 2 bhk flat near & arround in Kothrud area but day by day the price are incresing like any thing 2 years back when I have started to buy a flat in Pune it was arround Rs.4000/- per sq ft in Kothrud & surrounding area now it is reached to 6K to 7k . Property price in Pune never seems to be fall down in Pune or the holding capacity of Builder loby is very strong resulting the property price increse like madely. Kindly advice me in comming few month or in 2012 can see 30 to 40% correction in proeprty price in Pune???

  3. Just check at the magic brick. Looks like reality price fall has already started. You can see panic selling by resellers in Pune

  4. Now I am in market for property for Pune in Wakad for myself to stay in. Although I am not in Pune, I am buying now because I believe I will not be able to buy 2 years from now in 2012 when I move in as it will be too expensive then. Prices in Aundh, Kalyani Nagar and Gurgaon makes me believe prices can go up. Quick look at launch prices made me rethink about new flat as a 3 BHK is over 60L and beyond my reach. Hence I am going for re-sale flat. I think a lot of discussion has been around price of new property in Pune. Re-sale property value seems to be 10-15% less than new and I am not sure if the re-sale values are going up as well at same rate. My perception is that re-sale market will be stunted until new inventory keeps hitting the area. Once area is saturated then it goes up. Further when facilities develop it goes up again. I can definitely see saturation coming in Wakad. I can’t say that about facilities in Pune. That might that 20 years. Saturation can take value upto Rs 5000 psf I think. Good facilities, maybe to 10,000. Just my thoughts. Would like to know other’s opinion? And what would be life of a typical Wakad property? You know we look at house rent as retirement income option. I am not sure how long they will survive with basic maintenance.

  5. DEAR DAC, JUST SEE THE IMPACT OF LIC SCAM IN RECENT TIMES.. BE READY TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE.. Ranjeet

  6. Rajesh Arjunlal Jaisingh

    Very interesting Comments section here and it has helped record the “psyche” of a microcosm of Pune Realty watchers from 2007! Nice – it was helpful. Some notes on the current scenario: Positives for builders: 1. A lot of “anxious” wannabe-buyers have balked in the last 6 months to buy up properties for “actual use”. Note that there is a rising tide of 10 lk+ households that “need” to save taxes (Property Loans offer the highest tax-breaks) and also buy their first homes. I have seen people buy what they liked after 15% price-cuts allowing builders to stay put with prices and actually increase them in the last few months of 2009-onwards. This created a mini stampede to buy at least at the existing “low” prices! 2. Many builders shelved projects or slowed them down to the detriment of existing buyers – there have been delays but there are not too many instances of buyers backing out due to this. They have had to bear the delays! 3. A lot of money is sloshing around in the economy waiting to reinvest in property as a big chunk of this money has come from selling older properties the profits of which will attract taxes unless invested in real estate again – there are not too many alternatives but to deploy these funds back into property (at current prices) within a year. Little discussed, this one fact is helping builders and promoters a lot! 4. Lets admit it – people are making a lot more money today – businesses, govt employees, property owners and the salaried class have all had it good (most cases – not all!) for the last few years. They can afford to pay more for good property – so, why would they not? Positives for buyers: 1. Those who have already “bought” should rest easy – prices are not going to “Crash” unless a major economic disaster hits us again! Expect corrections though… else, its a flat-line all the way for some time. 2. Those who are “looking to buy” will be able to find a few deals if they look hard but don’t expect 2004-05 prices anymore! The cost of construction today is more than the prices in those years. 3. There is still a possibility for some over-stretched builders to go under and this could lead to some good properties hitting the market at decent prices or “bad” properties come up as distress-sale deals. Sharp investors will grab them quickly. Overall: I see that the sharp price rise trends of circa 2003 to 2007 have all but disappeared. While there was a dip post 2007 this is fast being caught up to. Looks like we are heading to a 2007-price flattening out. Do not expect stupendous gains in property over the next 3-5 years unless you are predicting a particular area to gain increased economic value due to infrastructural developments (would love to hear about this localities!). Positives for renters: Rentals are “extremely” low by investment standards for an investor to expect any decent returns on this front. I personally know of cases where property owners in “posh” localities of Pune get sub-2% returns on their property. Pathetic for investment but good for renters who can enjoy living in a property that costs in the 8-figures but is down-right affordable for even the salaried class! Expect this trend to only increase as more households “invest” in second homes and these houses hit the rental-market. All the views above are mine and while I belong to the investor community, I have tried to be as neutral as possible. Happy to catch up on a cup of coffee with anyone who would like to discuss in greater detail! :) Warm regards, Raj rajeshaj@gmail.com

  7. i am looking to buy flats for investment purpose with a 3 yr horizon with a budget of 35 lacs. I see from this blog for the past 3 years everyone would be speculating and worrying and no one wud have bought a flat. Should I continue this legacy or someone can give a splendid advice ?

  8. It is always good to invest in real estate & the information provided is also very useful hence nowadays i am looking for luxurious homes pune

  9. Hey dac, it is good to revisit threads. I just did too :) Prices in Pune have come down so it is incorrect to say nothing has changed. A fine example is Nanded City booking prices (3200psf) and prevailing rates (2500psf). Is it the right time, I don’t know. I still am not comfortable with the rates. I don’t see value being delivered for my money. Someone long time back on this thread asked about property in Chakan because of some airport coming there. I had advised then it may not come. Here are 3 news articles in different points of time. The latest one talks about it being ready sometime by 2020 :) 14-may-2009: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/new-chakan-airport-still-miles-away/458822/ 8-dec-2009: http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20091208/804/tnl-rs-7-000-crore-chakan-airport-new-de.html 9-jan-2010: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Proposed-airport-near-Chakan-wont-happen-for-10-yrs/articleshow/5426315.cms The bottom line is there is too much speculation going on in Pune. It is one of the most riskiest places to bet on. In the coming years, Pune has more downfall to see than growth. I think this thread has done and would continue to do something good for those who can think and reason. It has provided so many viewpoints on this subject.

  10. Hi Ranjeet, I am back after a long time to this thread. I believe this thread has been since last two years (at least). I don’t know how many guys have been waiting waiting specially after your commnets to buy the house. I don’t see anyone from this thread has bought the house and said that your comments saved xx amount of money. However I am not in touch with the current siutation of Real Estate in Pune but whatever I heard from my friends in Pune nothing has been changed drastically. As always I have been telling if anyone wants a house to live any time is the right time. –DAC

  11. Roopa, PM Said it right!!!!!!!! You have excess money save it as the days ahead are going to be VERY TOUGH – VERY HARD and every peny will count. He who is financially sound shall overcome it without making dire compromises. It is going to be really very tough starting Mid-2010 – take it for granted…..

  12. GODDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!! ONE MUST GO THROUGH THIS LINK – UNDERSTAND IN DEBTH THE INTER-LINKS, HOW WALL STREET CALLS THE SHOTS ON THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, GLOBAL MONEY FLOW ORIGINS AND HOW THESE ARE MANIPULATED AT THE “VERY FIRST STEP” – http://www.trendsresearch.com/forecast.html ALSO, FOLLOW “PETER SCHIFF” WHO SPEAKS ON THE SAME LINES. DO A GOOGLE SEARCH AND YOU HAVE IT ALL. REMEMBER “” THEY ARE ECONOMISTS AND NOT ASTROLOGERS SO THEY SPEAK ON THE BASIS OF HARDCORE FIGURES “” US – COLLAPSES COMPLETELY – A CASCADING EFFECT EUROPE – A CASCADING EFFECT GLOBAL ECONOMY – THEM A GLOBAL “” NEW WORLD ORDER – A NEW FINANCIAL SYSTEM TAKES SHAPE PAST 2014 AND LEADING WILL BE INDIA-CHINA CENTRIC GLOBAL ECONOMY AND NOT US CENTRIC”” GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THESE FORECASTS – READ ALL THE THINGS RELATED TO THESE FORECASTS TO UNDERSTAND FROM WHERE THEY CONCLUDE ON THESE FORECASTS. SEARCH FOR “” BUILDERBERG GROUP “” UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS AND WHAT IMPACT IT HAS ON GLOBAL AFFAIRS. Prakash.

  13. Roopa, I gather that you only want to invest your money in RE and are not looking for an ashiana. Days of real estate being an investment vehicle are gone. I say this because prevailing RE prices are more than their fair value (specially in Pune). In such an instance, only one thing happens – correction, which is now LONG DUE in Pune. Till any of this happens, you would just see prices hovering around a point. Now have the prices really fallen to a point where they start making sense? I don’t think so. There is nothing right for investment today. Everything seems to be so much overvalued to me – Gold, Stocks, RE. One can only hedge today by spreading across these investments and expect not to take a loss (forget gains). The best decision one can make in such an economy is to SPEND. Buy that big car you always wanted. Stay in a posh locality and much bigger houses like 3-5 BHK as rents are cheaper. Take that vacation. Buy those furnishings. Right now enjoy life with your hard earned money. Good Luck.

  14. Hello, i have beengoing thru the comments on this blog – well i have ended up very confused i need to invest in a 2 bhk but my budget is only 25 lacs i really liked magarpatta city but its going beyond – can somebody pls. comment on how is dsk as an investment – will the price go up or i should wait for magarpatta to come down

  15. ** PROPERTY SALES DIP IN FY 09-10 ** PROPERTRY ISN’T SELLING AS IT IS TOUTED LOUD BY BUILDERS – EUPHORIA CREATED IS A HOAX – FOLLOW BELOW LINK – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/real-estate/realty-trends/Dip-in-property-sales-hits-stamp-duty-collection/articleshow/5238111.cms

  16. GLOBAL FINANCIAL THINKERS & MAJOR PLAYERS ALSO TALK OF “”BUBBLE”” ERUPTING WITH DEVELOPING WORLD INCLUDING THAT OF ASIA – INDIA & CHINA. INDIA PER SAY HAS EXACTLY FOLLOWED THE SAME PATTERN ANALYSED HERE – A CLEAR 70%+ GROWTH OF STOCKS WHERE ACTUAL VALUATIONS ARE DIFFICULT TO JUSTIFY EACH DAY — READ THIS ARTICLE ALL 3 PAGES IN DETAIL – http://in.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idINIndia-43429420091026?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0 YOU HAVE MY EARLIER POST WHERE “”RBI”” WARNS OF “”ASSET BUBBLE”” ONE HAS TO UNDERSTAND FROM THIS TREND AND BE SMART NOT TO BUY HOME NOW — PROPERTY PRICES WILL “”CRASH”” WAIT FOR ANOTHER 2-3 MONTHS.

  17. DEAR ALL, LOOK AT THIS ASPECT — RBI WARNS THAT — ASSET PRICE BUBBLE GETTING CREATED — PROPERTY PRICES HAVE NOT FALLEN YET TO THE EXTENT NECESSARY — INFACT THEY HAVE RISEN SHARPLY WHICH IS CONTRARY TO THE NEED OF THE HOUR — READ THIS – http://in.reuters.com/article/economicNews/idINIndia-43465820091027 I HOPE IT MAKES CLEAR WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN EARLIER — — DONT BUY NOW — SAVE YOURSELF — SAVE OTHERS –

  18. Anyone know whats the current flat rates @bapat road?

  19. READ THIS AS WELL – IT IS A CLEAR NEXUS BETWEEN “” MIDDLE MEN “” & “” BUILDERS “” THEY ARE FOOLING US BY CLAIMING RAPID SALE OF THEIR PROPERTIES. JUST IMAGINE THEY ARE GOING TO ANY EXTENT – ANY KIND OF MANIPULATION – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-developers/real-estate-sector-still-deprived-of-genuine-demand.html#more-3144 http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-developers/real-estate-developer-parsvnath-to-raise-rs-600-cr-by-selling-stakes-in-realty-projects.html

  20. DEAR ALL, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO READ THIS AND SAY TO ALL “JAAGO INDIA JAAGO – MORE SPECIFIC – JAAGO PUNE JAAGO” ARE YOU ALL GETTING IT – THINKING OF BUYING NOW IS LIKE FALLING IN TO THE TRAP – ONCE YOU FALL IN TO THE TRAP – BUILDERS GET A BOOST – AT YOUR STAKE THEY TRY TO PLAY AROUND WITH ENTIRE PUBLIC AT LARGE – JUST THINK FOR A MOMENT – IF YOU BUY A PROPERTY NOW – YOU END UP PAYING AN EMI OF Rs.30 – 40K PER MONTH – SAME PROPERTY IF YOU LEASE IT FETCHES YOU MEAGER Rs.10-12K PER MONTH – THE BALANCE IS WAY OUT OF YOUR POCKET – WHY IS THIS HAPPENING – STOCK MARKET IS A SHEAR SPECULATION & MANIPULATION – HAS ANYTHING ELSE GROWN IN YOUR LIFE COMPARED TO THE RISE IN STOCK MARKET & RELATED RISE IN GOLD PRICES & FOOD & ESSENTIAL COMMODITY PRICES – FOR YOU IT HAS REMAINED SAME WITH ADDED RISKS OF JOB LOSS – CURTAILING OF BONUS/VARIABLE PAY/AUSTERITY MEASURES TAKEN AT ALL LEVELS – READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS ABOVE WHICH EXPLAIN IN DETAIL – SAVE YOURSELF – SAVE OTHERS – DON’T FALL PREY TO BUILDERS & GIMMICKS – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Real-Estate/News-/Realty-developers-tall-claims-fail-to-impress-buyers/articleshow/5095684.cms?curpg=1

  21. Today I visited Row house@Ravi Park in Manjiri , 4 Km from Magarpatta. I liked the the township and at first glace I got impressed by roads and open space. Builder is asking for 35 lac. Does anybody know about this builder ? It is worth to inverst 35 lac in Row house at Ravi Work ? what should be the fair price in this area ? I expects some good comments .. Thanks in advance Tx. Dharmendra

  22. I can very well tell you the right time to buy property in Pune, wait for another 6 months :)

  23. GUYS!! Need your expert comments. Would it make sense to buy a bungalow in Vadagaon, Talegaon which is still under-developed, giving price advantages over Pune city, and travel 20 kms to Hinjewadi IT park? Isn’t it better than staying in a flat and paying high prices to buy. My guess is, if you take old Mumbai-Puna bypass way, you should be in Hinjewadi in approx. 35-40 minutes… Isn’t that called a normal travel in India? I would appreciate your responses, the pluses and minuses living in a rural area such as vadagon, talegaon…..Tk care.

  24. Well Said Ranjeet.Can you please tell me when is the right time to buy property in pune? this year end or next year?Can you please give us some specific time frame.

  25. Wait untill election results. If current govt rejected rates will be definately down… See my ear;ier post abt gold..it is increasing.. regards, ranjeet

  26. Hi, The builders in Pimple saudagar have incresed theie rate again. In jan 2009 the prevailing rates were 2100~2700. Now they have increased it to 2500~2900. In one of the projects that the older rate was 2500 and now as of today they are quoting 2850 :). The NSE & BSE are showing a positive trend. It seems that the builders are not going to bow down due to their large profits made, and its the buyer who is going to suffer.People have been advising me to hold the decision from Jan and to wait for 6 more monts (every month I get the same advice.). I dont see any price correction. Some of my friends who struck the deal in early this year seem to quite lucky and sensible to me now :( as their properties have appreciated in just 6 months of time.

  27. Hello All It was good reading through the comments threads. Any idea about Kumar Paradise by Kumar Properties near Magerpatta city? The rate and how is the place to stay and approach to Hinjewadi and other IT parks. Thanks

  28. @Satya: Very Good Story. While some of it is hypothetical it still delivers the message good enough. We always thought that there is a land scarcity in India due to population. If that was the case, why there are so many empty flats, why builders are struggling to sell real estate, why the monthly rents are much cheaper than the actual EMI + Maintenance paid, these are all signs of the bubble. This reminds me of 1992 era… I was still in Std. XII but my dad had booked flats because the prices were going up every 2 weeks. In 2000, when we tried to sell those, prices were slashed down at least by 30%. I think wise men here will wait until the real estate correction happens.

  29. Want to share small story i read somewhere. Read and wake up before it is too late – Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollars as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around. 1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar. 2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, now A and C own 1 dollar each while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar. * The net asset of the country now = 3 dollars. 3) Now C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country, and land is non producible asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A, and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollars. *A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar. * B sold his land and got 2 dollars, so his net asset is 2 dollars. * C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollars but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net residual asset is 1 dollar. * Thus, the net asset of the country = 4 dollars. 4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted having sold it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollars from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollars. The payment is by 2 dollars cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollars. But since he owed B 2 dollars, his net asset is 1 dollar. * B loaned 2 dollars to A. So his net asset is 2 dollars. * C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollars. * The net asset of the country = 5 dollars. A bubble is building up. (5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollars. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollars from C, and cancellation of his 2 dollars loan to A. * As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins. His net asset is 2 dollars. * B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollars, but since he has a debt of 2 dollars with C, his net Asset is 2 dollars. * C loaned 2 dollars to B, so his net asset is 2 dollars. * The net asset of the country = 6 dollars; even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollars in circulation. (6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous. (7) One day an evil wind blew, and an evil thought came to C’s mind. “Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollars in circulation, and, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most only 1 dollar, and no more.” (8) A also thought the same way. (9) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. * So, in the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollars. * B owed C 2 dollars and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollars is now 1 dollar. So his net asset is only 1 dollar. * C has a loan of 2 dollars to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollars, his Heart is palpitating. * The net asset of the country = 3 dollars again. (10) So, who has stolen the 3 dollars from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land was worth 4 dollars. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollars on paper. B’s net asset is still 2 dollars, his heart is palpitating. (11) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollars bad debt to B, but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now. * A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollars. * B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( he lost everything ) * C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar * The net asset of the country = 3 dollars.

  30. Buyers beware of the Broker-Builder nexus of under-writing of projects… Brokers are increasingly underwriting properties in new projects being launched by developers—blocking a large number of apartments during so-called soft-launches, hoping to offload them at a premium to end-buyers after the formal launch. This will help builders claim huge sales immediately and create an artificial scarcity in the market. Check the article below that talks about it http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Market-News/NCR-brokers-do-a-realty-check-again/articleshow/4926417.cms VK

  31. Guys, I don’t know what drives all you potential buyers…but for me its the following:- 1. Historically, affordable house prices are of the order of upto 3 times your annual salary. That way, you can move on to better things in life once you’ve got a place to stay. Right now I am looking at stifling EMIs till retirement (and that’s hoping one doesn’t get the salaries slashed relative to inflation, recession etc etc). 2. When I said “house”, I meant a place with a good approach road, regular water and electricity, clean air and an easy commute to your work and to places like the airport, hospital, schools, railway station etc. 3. Ain’t builder societies a farce? You own a house but still continue to pay every month in the name of society charges? This is a recent phenomenon of the last decade. 4. Why buy when a 50 Lac flat fetches you a bare 15K rent? Might as well let your money multiply in a bank. Logically, if it doubles in 7 years, you’ll have a crore. Now ask yourself, do you believe all those 50 Lac flats would become a Crore in the next 7 years? Will salaries grow so fast to find buyers still? 5. Yes, maybe property will continue to rise till such time there is no one left who can afford a house. But I am not going to be the guinea pig for this grand experiment! WAIT AND ENJOY SEEING YOUR SAVINGS MULTIPLY IN YOUR OWN PASSBOOK RATHER THEN THESE BUILDERS’ COFFER. I can already see hard cash of 7 Lacs (after taxes, rentals and a good life) sitting pretty in my account ever since I decided not to buy a house 2 years ago. This is as against a possible debt of 30 Lacs and an EMI of god knows how much for the next 20 years which I feel fortunate to have escaped.

  32. Hi. I’m planning to invest in a 2/3 BHK apartment in Project Acolade,Kharadi Pune. It looked appealing and cost-effective comparitevly..Close to 2850 / Sft. I’ve checked with the A slot of residents staying in the last 2 yrs and no one complained on water issues as PMC is providing well. It’s a hard rumour that Kharadi still suffers with Water Issues. If anyone thinks of Acolade as a bad idea please advice.

  33. How about NIBM. Is it any good? Is the rate of 2650 good? Is hasn’t decreased in the last year. While many other places have decreased by up to 33%. I have a budget of about 25-30 lakhs for a 2BHK, any advices? Thanks

  34. Hi, The rates r dropped, but there is ample scope of further drop. Inspite of huge Ads flats r not selling due to no buyers ihn mkt. Pl read prvious posts. With the new Tax code, the investors will start to dump further flats in mkt. Estimate abt 3-4 k Flats in Kharadi and dependent on Tanker water and no roads, waiting for buyers or rentals.

  35. How is Baner & Kharadi to buy a 3-4BHK flat? Would appreciate if you could post the schemes along with current rates.

  36. One of the reason why we as buyers should form a group and not buy underconstruction apartments. 1000 psf or 9000 psf; if u r not going to get the flat no use to discuss property rates. We as buyers in combination should make sure that we buy only completed housing… then the builders would have no choice but to sell flats that have been completed…… but alas i know this will not happen… http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2009072720090727021437812dbe1e3b2/Paying-rents-and-EMIs.html

  37. Folks, Read my previous updates, the situation remains stand and still with some minor ups-downs noticed in between. Doesn’t matter – REMEMBER – DON’T BUY A HOME NOW…….. FOR ALL REASONS DETAILED IN MY PREVIOUS POSTS POINT-WISE EXPLANATIONS GIVEN—– DON’T BUY—- HELP YOURSELF —- HELP OTHERS —- FOR THE FOLKS WHO WONDER IF THEY INCREASE —- MY ANSWER IS —- IF YOU BUY NOW THEN DEFINITELY SLOWLY OVER A PERIOD OF 4-5 MONTHS PRICES WILL INCREASE — IF YOU DON’T — MAINTAIN PRESSURE — LET BUILDER BURN ALL THE FAT THEY ACCUMULATED FROM PREVIOUS HIGH PRICES — UNREALISTIC PRISES — ALLOW BUILDERS TO COME ON THEIR FEET & JUST NOT KNEES — YOU WILL ENJOY PRICES OF YEAR-2004 & BELOW — & THIS IS THE PERIOD WHEN ALL THIS BOOM STARTED — NOW THAT BOOM HAS ENDED THEY MUST RETURN TO ORIGINAL PRICES AVERAGE OF RS.1150-1250 / SQ. FT — NOW YOU DECIDE — IF YOU WANT TO GO TO DOGS — OR MAKE THEM GO –

  38. Hi man, There is a duplex in Maurya society 2bhk for 75 Lakhs. Paper Ad The society is very quit on Naylor road. Good for own stay. House has its own garden, parking etc. Atur park is right in front. Brahma Suncity has quoted rate 4500 psf for phase- II if u r ready to pay in atleast half cash. However this is upfront offer by salesman, and i suspect it would be much lower when u will actually negotiate. By the way resale flats r available in Phase – I at 2900-3200 psf. The project is Huge with all amenities already available so the construction will continue for quit some time. The rates are on downward spiral, suggest wait for the effect of budget to further depress the sentiments and market. Also the election r round the corner the prices r sure to come down to finance the political parties. Rates r the costliest in Koregaon park area,

  39. I had seen an initiative on this forum to form an association before, now i dont see any update..so I thought let me put this and find out if anyone knows about other groups formed in past.. ? I had read about a group of some 100 Infosys people came together and had invited builders to start a project for them on mutually agreeable terms. http://bit.ly/2IFnHf While reading that, I came to know about this group ITWAP which says it has started a project in sus gaon and they are in land registration stage.. http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ITPWAP/ Anybody knows anything about the fate of these two initiatives ?

  40. sansei I was in Pune last week and had checked out Fortleza and Brahma Suncity. Forteliza 2nd phase is complete and the new building has excellent location and view of swimming pool, club house, kids play area. However I was quoted a price of 1 crore 9 lk (@ 6,000 per sq ft) which is a little over my budget. I then went to see Brahma Suncity. The sales person showed me phase 2 sample flat of 1700+ sqft @ 5,000 rs+ per sq ft. negotiable. You mentioned why not buy in Koregaon park.. Actually I am new to Pune, I live in mumbai but hardly got a chance to go to Pune. This was first time I went there. Can you tell me good locations in Koregaon park and/or kalyani nagar, or any other posh localities that could fit my budget? and if possible also tell me what society I should go and check out? There is one sunshine court opp to Forteliza there rawhouse of 2000 sqft is quoting 90 lk, how is that deal? Are prices really going to go down? Should I wait? Many thanks all…

  41. For the original stuff: http://beta.esakal.com/Search.aspx?srchkey=FSI

  42. History of official support: 10 yrs back, PMC started the concept of TDR’s – transfer of development rights. bldrs received additional 40% built up permission. However, due to Scams and blame game on officials, these became stricter and finally uneconomical. The bldrs started using Slum rehab projects to garner greater FSI to increase their profits. Their sole aim was profit and profits – leave aside the houses for poor. They r the loyal followers of the netas. Bldrs started to exploit the loop holes in bldg laws. They used the premiums to close open galleries for flats, they charged the free FSI for staircase and open parkings to their customers and reaped more and more profits. Then the special town ship projects came into being. But the bldrs had to comply stricter rules on water, waste management, etc etc etc… The responsibilty seems an everlasting commitment. So it did not find many takers…. So the new FSI gimmick Another aspect, they r planning to give State transport corporation land on 3 FSI to private bldrs for commercial use on 2/3 of total prop. This move is ostensibly to provide revenue to STC. Poor STC was running on losses all these yrs, nobody bothered. Now it has started showing revival – the vultures r out to finance the election on their lands

  43. Down rates ——————————————————————————– Hi , The election moves have started . PMC is mulling of increasing the FSI. Presently Gaothan area has FSI 2 and other suburbs 1; These will be doubled. This is supported by one and all. Profits to bldrs – monies in elections. So the money pressure eases for bldrs. Buyers beware the bldrs will now increase the constructions in projects, floors etc etc etc… But where is the monies when there r not many buyers in markets Loads of FSI /TDRs doesn’t produce money only selling does So the pressure is only going to increase. This was origianlly fm Sakal. posted it in another blog.

  44. Hi,, i want ot invest in some property in chakan,can anyone tell me how this area is for good incvestment..or plz advise where can i buy a house with the best value… my budget is 15 lacs

  45. The budget has not provided the much hyped relief to Aam Admi- read the bldrs. Result sentiments down . c the stock market reaction. The Fm has not even kept the previous good feelings and expectations! The Fiscal deficit targetted at 6.9% what will be the final? No major disinvestment. No infra announcement only intent! hah! No housing boost, no income tax relief. On top of it the pending elections in Maha. The monies have to come out man to fund these parties. Just c the opening moves: Increase in FSI (doubling) in Pune under consideration at PMC. LOL! It is not going to produce monies for the bldrs, unless they r able to sell the flats. So friends these people r going to under pressure SURE till election. Scout and cherry pick

  46. Hi, Nautanki, fortezela or slice of paradise had very bad vibes two yrs back. Was in headlines for variety of reasons. Poor residents had hell instead of paradise. Rates r exhorbitant, present situation u go and c for urself. Nyati meadows and Brahma Sun-city are good. U might like to visit their lounge and c Katrina promos. No connectivity at present. A long narrow winding road thro’ Wad gaon sheri, where even if a bus passes u, u get stuck for some mins with 2 wheelers/cycles crawling over u. Brahma has 101 amenities and huge front gate in constrast of Nyati. Beware u have a 750 pm maintenance charge and some amenities are chargeable per person per usage like club house rs100 per person etc. The quoted rates are 3100 psf for resale/investor flats and nego. The bldr rep had quoted 4500 psf nego. for the new Phase -II booking. The ph-II has centralised AC, e-facilities etc etc etc….. Abt connectivity, only a single plot separates these bldgs from the two lane road coming fm Adlabs , Kalyaninagar. Another road is planned along the riverside in DP joining near bridge on Bypass road. There is Cerebrum two bldgs, Nyati Tech park in this area under construction. if u have 80 lk, why not buy in Maurya society duplex on naylor road going at 75 lk for quite some time. or in Koregaon Park itself.

  47. VK, Avoid Kumar Kruti. Project has been stopped twice. Booking rate when opened 2nd time was INR 2200/sq ft. Project is delayed. Approach road is from Nagar rd. & not Kumar City. Btw, Fortaleza is going for INR 4000/sq ft nego in resale but several complaints are about Fortaleza too. Suncity resale doing rounds for INR 2900-3200/sq ft .

  48. sansei, I have enjoyed ur posts on other forum. I would suggest you post your recomendation on the areas that you have seen. like kharadi, hadapsar etc

  49. This is my first post to this blog and I am new to Pune. I want to buy my home in Pune in a good posh area and one of the best apartment complex. So far I liked only 2 places. Fortaleza and Brahmna Suncity. Can anyone please suggest me what should be the price of 2 BHK and 3 BHK in there? Any other good posh location for budget of 80 lk for 3 bhk? Thanks…

  50. Hi Guys, I think i have missed the real discussions these past year. No worry! Will pull some more bloggers into this site for more meaningful info for u folk. Personally, have dealt in Property and now looking for apartmant in east Pune for self use. If any one wants to exchange notes do so. Have seen some in Kharadi,Wagholi,Dhanori, Wadgaonsheri and little in Vimannagar. The rates do seem to hardening a little bit. But where r the genuine buyers??? Election round the corner, the monies of the bldrs, cronies,proxies have to come out for funding. With NCP in dire straits the fund requirements due to free bies in election would be HUGE. I expect property prices to be under pressure atleast till election for sure. How do i subcribe to the new post. and lively discussion.

  51. What’s happening .. ??? Is this blog dead .. ???? no updates since long time .. ??

  52. but what if the market picks up by then my dear… ?

  53. @ sankar Yaar wait till diwali.. There will be a good correction again.. Ranjeet

  54. Guys, what do you think, if I have to make a choice between Park Street and Magarpatta City Township, which one is better? Magarpatta has rates slightly higher than Park street. On phone, I was quoted psf rate for Magarpatta = 3330 while the Park street = 2850. When I was searching internet to find reviews about park street, I found grieviance slides about Five Gardens, which is also Pride & Purple’s construction. If there is anyone already living in Park street, your suggestions would definitely help. Thanks!!

  55. @Sanskar The township and the living here is quite good. (I stay, rented ) But the rate is over hyped. I was quoted 3250 3months ago, I left w/o doing any negotiation. In resale, the rate was around 2800, I think if you wait it will come down even below that.

  56. How is Magarpatta city township, Can anyone tell me the pluses and minuses… I am getting a rate of 3300 psf.

  57. I personally saw this week that one of most premiere builders of India, reducing the rate by 15% in the first face-to-face meeting after initial talk. It’s a big under construction project in Bangalore where structures are ready, possession in mid next year.

  58. Dear All, It is very risky to link the stock market with real estate prices in current economic framework. The numbers of Investors that got hit by Investing their money in real estate will never think of to reinvest in real estate. Though picture is again favourable. It is very hard to say that all things will go in correct direction. Revival of any economy generally takes almost one year to reboost. The common man who should be real buyer will not easily forget the crunches of those who lost their wealth in last real estate boom. I saw so many brockers seat empty or choose other profession due to recession. Again the question comes with holding power of builders. They have very strong holding power & its possiblity that the capital they are using whether fixed or working is come through balck market. That’s why they are not ready to cut down rates as they ought to cut. But small builders reduced their prices in last year with drastic differences. But see whether they have made any mess in raw material qulality in order to book good margins. Again The major impact in raw material cost is that of steel & cement. Though steel rates are declined, cement manufcatureres are playing safe by creating joint monopoly. They even indirectly banned cheap cement by imposing heavy import duty on cement procured from Pakistan. It is high possibility that the same bans will be write off in near future. Hence you will save lot in upcoming projects if we expect ethical businese practices from builders. Ranjeet

  59. Found a very interesting article on moneycontrol. Maybe some of you would have gone thru it. Interesting to note that the PSF construction cost mentioned here is only around Rs 600. ================================ A real estate crash is good for you; and India! CONVENTIONAL economics says a crash is bad. In reality, however, it’s a boon. A real estate crash is an economic blessing for billions of people and the country. Two years back, no one would have imagined that real estate prices could crash by 50 per cent. Today, it’s a fact. Compared to peak prices of 2008, you can expect a correction by 70 per cent in the coming years. Despite that a lot of properties will be lying vacant as there is a huge oversupply – in India and all over the world. Many builders and brokers will probably send me hate mails for saying this but the fact remains that a 70 per cent crash is a good time for them to create much more wealth and to tap a large market. This crash is excellent for home buyers, businesses, and the entire economy. Reason: A lot more cash is available for more productive activities in the economy such as building roads, electricity, etc. How is that? Let us say earlier a property you wanted to buy was being quoted at Rs 1 crore. To get money to buy this, you might have to scour your entire life savings and take additional loans. You and your family might have to slave for at least 20 years to pay off the EMIs to banks. A lot of your savings gets sucked into unproductive assets like real estate. Today cost of construction per square foot is only around Rs 600. Based on this a 1000 sq. ft apartment should cost not more than Rs 6 lakhs to construct. Just imagine a flat that cost barely 6 lakh to construct is being sold for Rs 1 crore. A few might argue – that we need to consider land costs. Land cost is artificially inflated across the country – India has an abundance of land all across. Just move out of the major cities and you will see thousands of acres of vacant land. Now imagine if that same property is available for Rs 20 lakh, which is the fair value for such a property. Now there is an additional Rs 80 lakh available in the economy for more productive uses. What happens to this surplus of Rs 80 lakh? Previously, only a small minority of builders enjoyed this surplus of Rs 80 lakh but now it can be invested to boost consumption. Roads, factories and new service industries can boom if each family uses this Rs 80 lakh more productively. Electricity, roads, water, health care and education will get a huge boost from this money. No amount of interest reduction or artificial stimulus package can have the same effect as this. When property prices go down, automatically the ‘black cash’ element would disappear. People would not see the need to find the back alleys to pay Rs 20 lakh. The question, you should ask! Today, a place like Dubai, which has sunk billions of dollars into unproductive real estate, is on the verge of collapse. Had they utilised this money for better use, the economy would have been much better today. A lot more of this crash is excellent for the economy. The real estate crash has not yet happened in India and is still to come and will probably surprise a lot of people. India has a bright future ahead and millions of new jobs are going to be created. A lot of new capital also is going to be used productively thanks to this global economic crash. I’ll once again stress that this is one of the best opportunities in history to create immense wealth for all those who are armed with knowledge and have a little bit of patience. =======================

  60. Darshit let me try to explain myself. I hope it adds to and clarifies some of the things that I mentioned above. >>So as per your logic , these fellow people have done nothing so why should they make money. Is that so?? Not exactly, sorry maybe I was not clear enough. I am referring only to the Builders with 1st hand flats and not the resale market. I was referring to the Builders Cost psf which is approx 600-800 psf. So the diff in cost for them is largely of acquiring the land which should ideally reflect in the selling price accordingly. Maybe an example would help let me try. Let’s say a Builder builds an apartment complex of 100 Flats of 1000 sq ft area and sells it at 1500 psf. Total revenue = 100 X 1000 X 1500 = Rs. 15 Cr. (I am assuming he is making a decent profit here) Same Builder builds similar apartment like above in some other area.. 100 Flats of 1000 sq ft area and sells it at 4500 psf.. Total revenue = 100 X 1000 X 4500 = Rs. 45 Cr. The different in the above 2 case. 45-15 = Rs. 30Cr should majorly be due to the cost of acquiring land and some odd taxes. Please correct me if I am wrong but is there such a huge difference in the cost of land that the builders demand such high rates. (The only close relation that I can think of to get the rates is to check the rates of individual houses / bungalows sold in these areas and take a reference of the land price) >> so first see what you want , check whether you can afford it and last try and understand of the stability , project worth of itself….. Cannot afford on my own. Can afford with the help of a Loan. If I take a loan I work hard and pay interest and principal back. Have little left for myself to spend on other things. Maybe can handle basic necessities for 10-15 years of my life. Meanwhile the builder has made a huge killing by selling me the flat and owns luxuries in the multiples. The Banks executive has made a nice safe interest income as well. All this at what cost? My cost!!! 10-15 years of my life earning and paying a huge EMI for owning an apartment. Somewhere I personally don’t feel it is worth taking such a huge load on my head, >>your e.g. of decorator , you didnt say in which city / area was this….. were there not enough options around. was availibility of an alternative an issue.. what made you to fall prey ?? or was ths some nexus like PBAP ;) This was in Mumbai and yes it is the same in every hotel so if I did not go to Hotel X then I would go to Hotel Y and they would have a fixed decorator who would charge exorbitant rates. Do u remember the dialogue from “China Gate”.. “Mere mann ko Bhaya mai Kutta kaat ke khaya”.. it is on similar lines… these guys quote what ever unke mann ko bhaya as there is no one to question them. Cheers, VK

  61. I have been reading this blog since last year and is very much informative. I also heard from news papers, news, friends that property prices are going up and if we want to invest then better to do it before Diwali 2009. How far is this true? Please count me in if you are planning on HBA meet. A telecon would be great. I am basically looking for a peaceful community with reasonable prices. A home that you would like to go to, after work. Not much noisy, good people, safe neighbourhood for kids. (My budget is 40 Lakhs, 3 BHK, approx. 1200-1300 sq. ft). Do you guys have any suggestion, on any areas or projects that I should specifically look in?

  62. Guys… Here ‘s some update on the propery market. Since my office is loacted in Hijjewadi,I was planning to buy a 2BHK flat in Pimple Saudagar,also it has good potentiial to growin future with PCMC project of connecting it with Aundh by a four lane road. I had sorted out 3-4 flats each in Rose valley & Roseland Rhythem,both projects by GK developers.I researched all the projects in & around like Swiss County by Rama group,Ganesh from wadhwani,but zeroed on these two projects. The feedback given bout GK developers was relatively better than the other developers in the vicinity apart from the construction quality,timely completion of projects ,amenities etc. In March end I was given a quote of 2400 psf for both Rose Valley & Rhythem.I was planning to buy that time itself but could not for market & job conditions. Finally I made up my mind I again took quotes :2600 psf, A RISE OF 200 IN @ MONTHS ITSELF. This was the rate I got after 3 rounds on negotiations.I was still in some dilemma whether to wait for some more time or to go for it.This again resulted in delay of 2-3 weeks. Finally me & my wife went to the buliders office with a mindset to purchase the flat.TO MY SURPRISE THE 2 FLATS WHICH WE HAD SHORTLISTED SOME 3 WEEKS AGO WERE ALL SOLD.THERE WAS SUCH A MAD RUSH IN THE OFFFICE THAT WE HAD TO WAIT FOR 40 MINS FOR OUR TURN TO COME. INITIALLY I THOUGHT IT ANOTHER OF THOSE BUILDER’S TRICJK TO PERSUADE ME TO BOOK EARLY BUT I SAW HIS BOOKING REGISTER.ALL THE FLATS WHICH WE HAD THOUGHT WERE BOOKED. IN FACT IN FRONT OF MY EYES 3 FLATS WERE BOOKED IN RAJVEER PALACE. People even dint bothered to think much .it was a fish market kind of stiff with every one thinking to buy before it finishes off. SINCE THE OPTIONS WHICH WE HAD SHORTLISTED WERE ALREADY BOOKED,WE LEFT THE PLACE AS THERE WAS NO PLAN TO INVEST MY HARD EARNED MONEY IN “SECOND RUNG” FLATS. Me & my wife were compelled to think who says there is dearth of money,recession,lay offs in the market.The people purchsed definitely contradicts this all. I was heart broken as I never thought all the options would run short. I chatted with other so called investor to know the rates & this is what they got 2800 psf!!! with possession in Dec end & 1.75L for covered parking !!! overall amounting to 33 L including stamp duty regis etc. Surely this is atleast 5L more than my budget. I’m regret my decision not to buy in March tself when the same flat would have costed my 28 L with frrbies like kitchen trolley,inverter,balcony shade. Lets hope whatever happens for best & may be God has some better deal reserved for me in future.

  63. well VK , I understand seeing what you are going through in finding the right choice of apt for yourself.(The one which you like). And as being said on this blog many times , the one we like and the one that is available , we will see a huge difference in rates. bcoz good apts hold their real value , do not see a great fall and all others — speculation. well with regards to builders charging exorbitant prices , i will advice you to discuss this thought with your fellow collegues who had invested maybe some years back in property when it was booming, all one thought of using banks money to raise their fortunes . That being said , in simple terms it means that being able to see the property prices grow & appreciate @ a min 20% PA to pay bank loans of say 8- 14%. So as per your logic , these fellow people have done nothing so why should they make money. Is that so?? What i am trying to say is this is all business, and all you need simply is good value for your money. a product that would hold its value and is worthy enough to live happyily with a family.gives you comfort and you could call it home. What we are trying to do here is trying to time the market , and that too real estate market . wow no one could ever time the stock market , and then with RE being so diversified , would be able to ever time it. If you are a genuine buyer , all i see is that you have the ability to identify and segregate the speculative market vs Real Solid Stable market. That is all that matters , if reading the past and understanding , i believe many people with logical thinking realized that 2006/07 was overhyped and speculative , and the same people believe currently this is a stable market. Well whether this is the lowest it will be , no one knows , and i am not in predictions but say if you dont get your choice would you ever buy ?? answer is No .. so first see what you want , check whether you can afford it and last try and understand of the stability , project worth of itself….. your e.g. of decorator , you didnt say in which city / area was this….. were there not enough options around. was availibility of an alternative an issue.. what made you to fall prey ?? or was ths some nexus like PBAP ;) This is called , cashing on opportunity well nice way to begin my Monday Morning , cheers guys have loads of fun this week.

  64. Can someone give me details about Kumar Kurti.. by Kumar Builders in Kalyani Nagar. Like builder reputation, location, quality of construction, etc. Surprisingly the quoted rates are not much different from last year Rates quoted in July 2008 were Rs.4800/- Podium floor. Rs.4700/- upto 4th floor. Rs.4750/- 5th & 6th floor. Rs.4900/- 7th & 8th floor. Rs.5000/- 9th & 10th floor. Rates quoted in June 2009 are Rs.5100/- 11th floor. Rs.5200/- 12th floor. I was told there is no availability on lower floors. Possession date quoted in July 2008: June 2009. Possession date quoted in June 2009: December 2009. Anyways I can’t say much expect I cannot afford to buy these flats maybe I never will be able to buy these flats. (I hope one day I will be able to buy) Also, I am not taking a loan to pay for the flats. I don’t want to slog for 15 yrs of my life to sponsor the A,B,C,D,E,F,G,….Z Class Mercs that the builder wants to own and also don’t want to sponsor the 1,2,3,4,5…..n series BMWs that the Bank executives want to own by earning Huge Bonuses for the potential profits earned by the interest we pay. The reason I say the above is because doing some research and information gathering I came to believe (pls correct me if I am wrong) that the cost of development is around 600-800 psf. So potentially the difference in cost in different areas is the Land Cost and maybe some Taxes. Gosh if this is true the profit margins seem huge (maybe I mis-calculated something here. Pls enlighten me if I am wrong). Add to that the fact that I have seen Builders owning huge Bungalows (usually more than 1) n Foreign Cars (again usually more than 1). (Obviously they earn all this with profit margins from selling properties right). Don’t take me wrong I am not getting jealous with the money they have. I am just trying to point out that they do indeed have huge margins when selling flats so they could afford to have those luxuries. But now I hear so many say “Ohh how can we sell in a loss…. Ohh we are nowdays working on wafer thin margins.. Ohh cant reduce the rates anymore otherwise we will be on road”. I believe that a lot of us (human race) have given in to greed. Everyone wants to earn more n more n more at others cost without caring for other in general. An analogy I could draw is….I remember the instance when I was getting married and the Decoration wala was not ready to reduce the cost from Rs. 1 lac for something that would cost him just Rs. 5k in raw material. (Very basic decoration of the stage). He knew he had a monopoly as the hotel would not allow anyone else for decoration. This guy showed us the decoration not in an Album but in a high end Sony Vaio Laptop and left the hotel in a Honda City. I was left thinking even if he would have asked for Rs. 1.8 Lacs who could have stopped him. Maybe 2 yrs down he feels that he needs to own a Honda CRV and so he does charge Rs. 1.8 lacs for the same decoration. God forbid what if he feels like owning a 5 series BMW wonder what will he charge then. Maybe even he could quote ohh “Demand Supply aaisa hi hai kya karen”. (The choice is after all ours but due to various reasons that different parties think (once in a lifetime thing, my youngest sons wedding, my only daughters wedding, my darling sons wedding, will my father be able to see his other grandsons wedding. maybe spend now etc. etc.etc. you give in) Anyways, let me apologize for the long comment. Maybe it is my frustration but I did see the rates going up fantastically fast when so called demand was rising but when the demand has lowered considerably I don’t see the rates coming down as fast…This makes me believe STRONGLY against what most builders say “DEMAND SUPPLY etc. etc etc.”. It is not actually Demand supply dynamics operating here otherwise in today’s times when the demand has lowered considerably the rates would have been much lower as well. Once again sorry for the huge comment.

  65. Satyam to put 7k-10k people on bench with just basic salary and PF. This is like soft lay-off. buying power wil go down with this… What do you feel guys ?

  66. I think Keshav had good knowledge on real estate but he was simply trying to impose his notions on everyone. In fact, it is good that he voluntarily escaped off from the blog. Even I did not like the way he was scrapping. Besides, he never supported his statements with any evidence or logic. Anyway, I am in for HBA but I am in Bangalore. I have forwarded my contact details to Arun and can be contacted for any help required.

  67. Hi All, I find this a very informative blog and it would be nice if in the future too knowledgeable ppl keep on posting their views here. Also please continue to mention which Builders have a good reputation and which projects are good as this is vital information for anyone buying a apartment. Also, the concept of HBA is great but unfortunately I am not in India to participate. Lastly, to Arun, request you to have an option where someone could register to receive updates on the blog without actually having to post a comment (unless I overlooked such an option). To tell the truth I had nothing informative or helpful to mention and commented on the blog just to receive future updates. Once again, thank you all for the information. VK

  68. Good that this numb, insensible and useless guy is off this blog…u better dont dare to comment again…a cheap NUT…good bye forever…. @Sagar, I appreciate u explaining the things to this dumb a**… but to this crap….explicating the things is just next to impossible and would definitely go in vain….so it’s better that we dont have him over here….as it is, his foul comments are never worthy and always seem garbage to me (rather most of them over here)….so let’s kick off this ill-tempered and sick AGENT/BUILDER from here….

  69. @Keshav, I would appreciate if you continue to post your comments here. The only thing I want to say is whatever responses you receive should be replied with seriousness as others reading the comments judge the value of someone’s advice on the way he/she responds back. Remember that even if someone ridicules your advice there are other mute readers who value it if you have sound basis to support. Hope to see your comments frequently. Cheers !! Sagar

  70. Dear Sagar, I’m almost near to post all the facts behind by statement of rising real estate market. I just don’t like any direct posts to me from “WantToInvest”. He is an A**hole. Any polite request would helped instead of starting the sarcastic comment on my statement. I’m off this blog forever. Best of luck! Cheers! KK.

  71. Hello Keshav, It’s a pity that you are behaving in such a way. I’m a person who has purchased a flat in 2007 and do feel that a downward trend in the real estate prices is hurting me. But that should not be the only reason for me to expect that the prices should go up again. I expect that people investing their hard money should get worth its value instead of the builders looting all the hard earned money. The way you are posting comments leaves no doubt in my mind that you either have invested when the prices were at their peak and now want to make people believe that they would jump again…..or you are one of those from the builders who wants to make the members of this blog divert their attention from the fact of getting together to fight against the atrocities of the builders and maintain a reasonable bargaining attitude start believing your baseless advice and fall prey …. I request you to either convey your points with the support of strong facts or assumptions if not keep mum. Mere sarcastic responses would only add to hamper your profile of being nothing but an agent of the builder community …..!!! I hope you understand what I want to convey.

  72. haha. lol. i really enjoy when you go crazy..!! BTW, I pity you as you earn peanuts. You mentioned that you have plenty with you.. so I just thought!! “LOL LOL”

  73. @Keshav, Well…for this sensible answer, you get “PEANUTS” (in CAPS and QUOTES)…thare plenty of such with me…just send a request and you’ll be awarded more nuts…you NUT… i guess amol is correct…u shud be in an IT dept of a builder…By IT dept, i mean PC troubleshooting dept, because u r nowhere near developing a software…leave it …dont worry what software actually means …i’ll let u understand it offline ;-)…now i’m LOL….

  74. Hi Arun, I am already in, but can’t attend meeting as I am out of india. well I got your No. I’ll call you.

  75. That’s good move, Arun. I’m abroad for a while and won’t be able to attend the meeting. However, I would like to be part of HBA. Can you please circulate the agenda and minutes to me as well. Also please provide if you have any number to call (in case you are planning to organise at a place where the phone facility is available). I would urge you to arrange a telecon as well – this will help many people to join on the call. So physical presence is not a constraint. Can we also discuss the plan of building our own neighbourhood in case HBA is not a good option. The prices are gonna go up in choppy trend and builders are aware of it. So we need to play smart now. We have lost the opprtunity to buy in falling market. We should buy at least at optimum level now. Let get united EARLIEST. WE NEED TO MOVE FAST. Thanks! KK.

  76. Arun Prabhudesai

    Appeal to everyone who have commented on this blog I have tried to initiate the HBA now atleast 3 times and except 4-5 no one has shown much interest. Now that market is picking up, it becomes all the more important for all of us, otherwise the story is going to repeat and many will be left high and dry even after a wait for more than 2-3 years. THis is an important movement and all of us need to get together.

      Planning to arrange a informal HBA meeting this Friday or Saturday. Let us know if you are in! you can mail me back admin at trak.in before thursday.

    We will convey you the venue on email IDs.

  77. Folks – A news for you. Real esate prices in India are gonna grow from July’09. Do not expect more fall. There are fundamentals behind this growth. cheers! KK.

    • Keshav can you explain your fundamentals behing the price growth .i know u said u work in IT dept ………but I sincerely suspect if its an IT dept of a builder :P

      • haha. lol.

        • Dont laugh. Support reasons behind your fundamentals…we are keen on hearing how good are you in your basics/fundamentals…and explain by providing some consequential rationale …

        • @WantToInvest – Here’s deal! Wait for 2 months and then you’ll automatically come to know. Howz that? “LOL” – CAPITAL LETTERS and oh ya in quotation marks too! What will I get to provide this justification?

  78. Hi David, I don’t think I am able to make a right prediction and none really! Otherwise, we wouldn’t be reading this blog, would we? :-) I think, we are at the bottom price and it will rise in choppy trend. KK

  79. Thanks Keshav, as government changes and stock market is going up, is there possibility to increas the property rates ?

  80. Guys, One more point of caution. There are few realtors in Pune. They claim to help you in finding good property, getting a best deal, etc. But they are no different than agents, they are white collar real estate agents. Please be careful. Realtor is US concept and Realtor has lot of responsbilities and legal bindings. They have to help you in your interest and not in theirs. There is one very well known realtor in Pune. I don’t want to name is here .. but be careful. I have dealt with them as well and I know how they work. Be careful – everyone is after your hard earned money. Cheers! KK.

  81. Hi David, I am neither an agent, nor work for any builder. I’m also not an investor. During last 4-5 years, I had opportunity to buy 2 assets and I wanted one at Pune-East (Hadapsar area) and other and Pune-West (Wakad side). I have analysed all Pune including the smaller areas and have developed this expertise. I’m very sure that I can advise any of the buddies before buying the flat. I provide the justification so as none needs to trust me blindly. and it’s free of cost! It’s only for buddies! :-) By God’s grace, I’m very well settled in my IT career and not greedy for the first home buyer’s money. I know it’s hard earned money. Sometimes I get irritated with some of the comments at this site as people don’t know how to take benefit of the opporunity. Cheaper flats are not good! You have to pay reasonable price for a good flat. Take my word! I’m settled out of India since a year now, however keeping track of Indian market. I know few estate agents – who want to sell me flats / plots and I know how to understand the facts of that area! :-) I trust none (builder or agent). They all work for money. This blog is really nice to share my knowledge which is helpful to anyone who comes here. Cheers! KK.

  82. Hi Keshav, What is the name of your estate agency ? Are you working for any builder ? If yes then its nice to consult with you before purchasing the flat.

  83. Ashish, which neighbourhood and how much the area? I know lot about Pune, specially Magarpatta. :-) I sincerely appreciate efforts from Arun and other folks here to bring this blog as you see it today. I just sometimes try to add some spice ;-) to increase the TRP. lol Cheers! KK.

    • Jasminiuim – Area – 1490 sqft

      • can u give the breakup of 49lacs? Does it include St duty and Regn? Which floor of Jasmenium? have u seen the flat? i think all Jasmenium flats are ready possession flats. It’s one +ve point here. Check for any leakage. Most imp – check the view. few of the Jasmenium flats are on the extreme boundary of Mgpattta. Think what could be built there ?? I hope no big roads and all, which may cause nuisance to you. So… think ..

  84. hmmm…. interesting.

  85. Magarpatta Guys..this is an exxtraa ordinary blog. Thanks for providing such useful info and special thanks to people like PM, Prakas and Arun. I have been looking for a 3bhk for some time. Would you suggest 2700 psf, 3bhk flat in Magarpatta a good buy. Total cost = 49 Lacs. I am buying it for myself. To add to the posts, I have been surveying the market for last 6 months and the builders have reduced prices in the range of 200-1000 psf. With the +ve news floating around with stock markets, GDP and others… I am bit worried if the these bloody suckers start raising the rates again???

  86. Dear All, Before purchasing any flat/open plot (NA) (or rather any residential property), can any body let me know what all documents/formalities should be exchanged/completed between both the parties (Buyer and Seller)? Pointers to any useful links would be glad to receive. Thanks in advance!

  87. Blindly – go to Park Street, Wakad. I’m not boasting / marketing – but it’s gonna be one of the premium proprty in Wakad vicinity. You won’t repent. I persnally don’t see any further downside. Overall pune, people overestimated demand and there were lot of investors in pune who took the prices to the sky. At current levels I think the prices r reasonable. But it will take smetime for appreciation (the excess stock in the mkt needs to first get absorbed) Indian stock mkts r relatively safe and investable. I think one can start putting money in good frontline based mutual funds. I am again seeing lot of foreign interest and mad rush to invest in indian stocks.

  88. I had visited few projects this weekend in Kharadi.. What surprised me was the confidence (or should i say over-confidence) of these buliders that made them believe that realty prices are again going to soar up once the cabinet is declared and stable govt starts functioning.. This so-called slowdown in realty acc to them is just a matter of a month now… ! What are your views guys?

  89. hey Ritu – you’re right! I missed that area. It’s good area as well. But again – DO NOT GO FOR UNDER CONSTRCUTION. BUY ONLY READY POSSESSION FLATS. Rgds, KK

    • Guys… Pls suggest me some good projects on Baner-Pashan, Wakad and Kondwa areas… I stay towards Kalyaninagar and have no/very little idea about the above mentioned areas.. If any you guys stay around these areas pls mention some good project names… All suggestions are welcome…

  90. Kharadi – I’m not optimistic about that area. Actually there is no reason why Kharadi, etc should come up. They probably are worth Rs. 1000/-, there is major water problem. Check Accolade project, nice project but you need to buy the Bisleri water. Would you do that forever? Since last 2 yrs, ppl living with water problems. It’s known to all. If it’s 30 lacs, then go to Wakad. Omega paradise may be better option. or you’ll find lot of resale flats in that budget. I would like to inform you that – 30 lacs for 2 BHK flat is NOT LESS budget. PLEASE DO NOT SETTLE/ COMPROMISE for less considering you’ve less money. You need to negotiate with sellers. I’m sure, you’ll get it. Go to Wakad or Magarpatta. I belive – Ganga also has good project – it’s in Salunke Vihar. you can try there as well. nice area. it’s ahead of Fatimanagar. YOU WILL SURELY GET NICE FLAT IN 30 LACS. I’m out of India otherwise I would loved to identify the exact location based on your needs. Now, this forum will add another profession to my list – Estate agent / broker, etc. (which I’m not .. lol). I like to help people to get right house. write me at kamat79@gmail.com Cheers! KK

    • Heheh.. Thanks again Keshav… Yes.. I will check out some projects in Wakad. I have heard even on Baner-Pashan road… there r a few good projects that would fit our budget.. Regards, Ritu

  91. Our budget is not more than 30l for a 2BHK (Area arnd -1100). Thus, we have little choice as far as the area is concerned. Can you suggest any good projects that would fit our pockets too?

  92. Thanks Keshav.. What do you think about Kharadi?? The areas you mentioned are currently out of our budget… :(

  93. Guys, can anyone comment on Park Street? I have a flat there. What price should I ask for it? :-) Any comment is warmly welcome! Cheers! KK

  94. I wouldn’t go for Dhanori even at Rs. 1500/- in a palace like structure. According to me, Dhanori is a village and has no significance on Pune map. During such crucial situation, don’t ever think of anything other than Magarpatta, Satara Road, Kalyaninagar, Central Pune like model colony (which is too costly), Koregaon Park, Aundh, max max Wakad. If I were you, I would put money into fixed account and enjoy the “warmth” of the cash. Dont enjoy cash! :-) Just enjoy that feeling. It’s peaceful and pleasure to see your cash growing fast. Thanks, KK.

  95. Hello Guys.. I need some inputs on Dhanori.. I m getting a deal there for 2300 /- for a 2BHK. The project is called Regency Meadows… The construction and finishing is really good and seems to be of very good quality. The layout is also decent enough. But, Dhanori is not quite developed as of now.. and due to the slow down doesnt look like it will start developing well in the near future. Does anybody has any idea about this project and can add something here?

  96. Anything in Kalyaninagar should not exceed Rs. 3, 500/-. Rohan Mithila is the one near airport? I enquired with Rohan’s once day about this and they mentioned that the flats will be made sound-proof to keep the flight nuisance away. Also Boeing has some testing center there? I will not go for Rohan Mithila as airport will cause hell lot of nuisance. PLEASE GO FOR READY POSSESSION FLAT ONLY. where u know what’s pros and cons. Try Brahma, seems they have good projects. Also, you can think of Gera builders. KK.

  97. can anybody guide me on rates in kalyaninabar? i am looking for 2/3 bhk. how abt Fortleza, skylounge or kumat kriti? how abt rohan’s mithila in viman nagar?

  98. Not sure Park Street has got any ready posseision being sold by the builder. You can go to their office and check. They also have Rhythm neighbourhood. Mahindra woods is more beautiful. but seems the maintainace cost is Rs. 3/- psf. not sure.. ! i’m not in touch with latest updates. but u should get a ready possession flat in park street at Rs. 2800/- (i believe it’s reasonable price) – and with total stuff – 2800 * 1100 = around 30 lacs + regn, st. duty, parking, transfer (say max 4 lacs) = 33-34 lacs.

  99. KK, Thanks a lot for you expertise advice. Would really appreciate if you could let me know what will be the negotiable price of park street, mahindra woods in wakad / pimple saudagar.Also plz let me know some good ready possession property with budget @25-28 L RS

  100. @Dheeraj – I have plot in Amar Shrushti, Hadapasar. Recently I have received the offer for Rs. 1400/- psf. WantToInvest is right – I said before I’m investor. But I’ve realised that having plot is worth than having a flat. So not planning to sell, probably will build a house or sell later. But there are no good plots around, I have really hunted for worth properties. Do not buy flats. I would recommend to buy in Magarpatta , if you get ready possesion @2800 + Magarpatta charges , etc. So if you get 1100 sq ft flat in say in less than 35 lacs then worth deal. Try Jasmenium – it’s good. however not all flats are good. one good point about the used flats is – u know leakage, society, ambiance, view, etc. so go for second hand flats these days. Don’t go for under construction. @RS- I did not like DSK Sunderban’s flats, construction and architecture. it’s more like hostel, police quarters. check with Amar Ornate, Flora (next to mgpatta). Be very careful about the sopanbaug area, u will hear trains noise. they will say it’s just 2-3 trains but why to invest? try magarpatta at @2500 (READY CONSTRUCTION) – but again very carfeul abt location. because the front road of magpaata is noisy during midnight due to trucks, etc. it’s the nagar bypass road. if u really ask me – i prefer the western side of pune. Wakad, Pimple Saudagar. I liked Park Street flats a lot. and also the ambience. Akashganga is also goodm but they are sold out. dont go to proper wakad side – like palash, etc. they are good but then surrounded by slums.. So have a look at park street, mahindra woods, u will like them. and they are on the main road – v close to mumbai, uni, hospital.. try negotiating.. once again – i’m not builder and not real investor. i have few assets in pune but don’t want to sell them .. i’m abroad now and doing v well (touch wood) – so money problem is resolved over last 6 months. :-) hope this helps someone.. u may end up paying little extra for a premium flat – take my word. cheap flats will be affordable, but waste. and for some reasons, my taste of residence is little different. i found 75% flats not worth staying. i like calm, beautiful and spcaious flats and still affordable. i bought flat in Wakad with lot of hardships and had trouble in money managmeent. but within 2 years, i’m happy abt my decision. happy exploring… Cheers! KK.

  101. Hi All, I have been reading this interesting and useful blog regularly since last one year. Currently I am planning to buy an 2BHK flat (980sqf) in DSK Sunderban near Amanora of hadapsar. Could you please suggest , what will be the right price of the above property. Shall I buy or wait for some time. I came to know that they are selling 2BHK for 25L. Please share you thoughts in this matter.

  102. Thanks Guys, I appreciate you both for good understandings. Well Keshav just like you I am also out of India and I am still looking for good opportunity to buy some land in Hadapsar my requirement is at least 3000 sq ft., but I couldn’t find anything still in my budget, in fact there is no land nearby, so decided to look around somewhere close to Hadapsar, But coz’ of the volatility I decided to wait, and i think it is a fair decision. I have seen the Rates falling down in that area, all the construction going on in sasane nagar has slashed down the rates, indraprstha society :- rates has also slow down, Amanora :- No booking, Magarpatta :- rates are going down slowly, few of my builder friends from Nagpur, Amravati and Akola all are suggesting not to go for any land or flat purchase till Budget, after budget, picture will be clear and Rates may go down more. It will depend upon the policy of new government. where as builders are looking for some boost up for them according to Times Of India. Coming back to the rescission point if there is not much business for IT and BPO’s in india or if some companies windup from Pune that will create threat in employees of other companies and those people will stop investing in properties, either way it has already came down to 1 to 2%. Regarding NRI investment, those are also not so much interested in buying properties except in there home towns, Everybody wants to hold cash , RBI said that last year NRI deposits ware $300+ M USD and this year it has gone $3000+ M USD, it means everybody have faith on Indian banks, most of NRI’s have transferred there savings to India as also Rupee value have gone down they are all in profit now, so if thay can earn money by simply transfering there money from US account to NRE account why would they invest in property which is not reliable right now. it is simple and logical too. I will still like to wait, and for investors they have to wait for long. again I wish if we could form HBA as soon as possible there are lot of things that we can do by means of HBA it would be an advantage for all.

  103. @Keshav, So that is it. You are lying about NOT BEING AN INVESTOR as you have earlier said in a post that your are an INVESTOR! Keshav said earlier: I am also investor so don’t worry about where I’m working and all. I agree in Pune there is no centralized location as “IT Park”. Pune has got “IT park(s)” :-). Anyways, I would prefer to stay on rent near my office and put my house on rent. From what you have written it is so very clear that you wish to see prices going up for the sake of your investment. We all want that. Lot of us have lost money in the stock market but no one wants to believe that they would now lose in the RE market as well ( In real terms because if 1 rupee today is not 1.1 rupee tomorrow you are losing money). The point I personally am trying to make is that prices are driven by people and builders are cashing on it. Some sensible calculation shows that real ‘loot’ is going on here. There is no justification for the high prices. Things are advertized big time in the name of location, amenities, etc. but it is all plain bullshitting. People are ready to spend 30 lakhs (like Shipra) but what do you get for 30 lakhs today? A small flat in a village where your house cockroach comes to you and says, not enough space for me dude! You can’t even call a decent number of your friends for a party or where there is no space to walk once you have furnished your flat! So why waste this hard earned money knowing that there is no value for it! Why not rent a big house and live like a king. Rentals are FAR CHEAPER in Pune. Of what you have seen that prices have not appreciated since 2007, but it is very clear that they have also gone down considerably! Will it again reach those highs? I don’t think so. What is the driver for that? Driver for the first rise were gullibles in Pune. Now we have run out of them. Who takes on the next rise? I agree with you on your comments about PHURSUNGI. It is a bloody village for God’s sake. And that SP Infocity, I wonder why IBM went there in the first place! Really not livable. Check out Kumar Park Infinias photos on their website. Once you have done that go to PHURSUNGI and check what it is in reality. 44 acres surrounded by slums. No greens anywhere in sight as shown in the photos. Your idea on pooling money and getting it done ourselves is very nice. My Daddy proposed to me that some time back. Infact it is not new and many folks have done it in the city. Let us see if we can pull this DIY through the HBA.

  104. Hey Guys, I was just teasing you folks. Extremely sorry and I apologize for the same. I’m not builder, nor investor. I have bought my assets in Wakad and Hadapsar (which I’ve done long back and I haven’t seen any change in prices from Diwali’ 2007). I belong to Pune and know how the growth is happening. Formation of HBA will give a good start. However, it would unnecessary get into complications where builder will be forced to reduce the rates. Which ultimately will impact quantity. I really wonder why anyone of you haven’t thought of forming a group of say 25 home buyers? With 25*20 lacs = 5 Crore – you can buy a land in good location, build specious flats and have a complete township / society of like minded people. We all need just one good home , right? Banks will give discounts on loans for bulk deals, cements, steel , interiors, all will be discounted. I’ll love to be part of such a nice group with 20 lacs in. Unformtunately, I’m not in India – but if at all we form a society and anyone agrees to plan – i will certainly use my contacts to get best homes for ourselves. Cheers! KK.

  105. Hi Arun and Dheeraj, Thanks for chipping in and letting the self-called Knowledgeable person cum Builder (may be) know the behavioural traits. He just needed that stick to have swung around him. I too give due respect to this blog and the expert comments passed out here. And that is the reason of my participation in the blog. But because of some ppl, the decorum of the blog shouldn’t go haywire. And with this said due respect, I too assure of being modest in my commentary, provided not a single abusive word rebels back. I hope I’m quite clear to the fellow whom I’ve indirectly addressed this. @Arun – Regarding the formation of HBA, I’m IN. Thanks!

  106. Hi All, Darshit is right guys, There may be some people who like to take this blog off the track. I far as I think everybody is welcome to read and put there thoughts on this blog, But some filtration system is necessary to save the blogs reputation I would like to suggest Arun instead of blocking anybody we can filter out the ‘bad words’ and ‘discriminating words/sentences’. @ WantToInvest it is but obvious your reply to Keshav, but why.. because of others you are abusing the words, don’t you think that when we give our valuable suggestions to others what impression it creates in front of them, if we started talking cheap, how can we gain trust. @ Keshav You should also think about it, and if you think that you are so Knowledgeable Person in realty field, then you should share your knowledge with others and guide them in a right way, and as you said PM and WantToInvest are good in calculation, similarly, you can also give some proof for what you say is truth, coz’ when you say something you should have some base to it, so it can be proven to the readers of this blogs. By writing all that you are not only discriminating others but also spoiling the blogs, FOR ME IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE A BUILDER AND DOING ALL THIS TO MISGUIDE OTHERS now you only knows what is the truth. And as far as the question of HBA it may or it may not form, it has nothing to do with this blogs till it exist. If you all show interest in it, I believe we can do it. If any body has any question Regarding HBA they can mail Arun and show there interest. Knowledgeable person will never do loose talk and has a better understanding. it has been said guys ” Talk less then thou you Knowden, Have more then thou you Showden” Guys don’t be discriminating. I hope you all will share your good knowledge with everybody. Help others, Do not let Builders to make fool of house buyers. I hope you all agree with this.

  107. Arun Prabhudesai

    Hey All you guys, I normally do not comment when the discussion is going between 2-3 commenters, infact , I encourage it. However, as a policy, I am requesting all you guys to stay within your limits and only post that will help the readers in some or the other way. Remember, more than 500 people visit this page every day, and the reason is not because of the post, but because of comments from people like you. Now if we start to have internal warfare and use abusive language, it beats the whole purpose. Bottom line is – Henceforth anyone using bad, abusive language – or showing someone else down – will be promptly deleted. Lets have some healthy discussion guys !!!

  108. What is this childishness going on , I have subscribed to this blog to view healthy debates about Real Estate and not to hear personal ego tantrums / between couple of folks. Its a blog , all will try and be an expert , but there are ample comments for the viewers to have a better understanding. But lets keep the basic premise of RE awareness alive , rather than childish comments.. It is helping no one here… Hope you all understand.

  109. @Keshav, I guess ur over-frustrated by my teasers… hahahaha teri to chud gayi lagta hai… go visit a psycholgist…u really need one… and hello….pls dont mislead ppl by ur neophytic comments. they dont even make a beginner’s sense… sorry to say…..but ur a total foolish…i beg the organization where you work (i don’t know whether you have a job or not :-D)…please kick off this imprudent, idiotic and a thoughtless guy….this is the best time to lay him off…he doesn’t even deserve a housekeeper’s job… aur jara apne mata-pita se sanskar seekh kar aao…if you are unaware of the communication etiquettes, then go and attend an english writing + speaking skills program…. buddy…..u badly need holistic improvements…that’s wat i hav to say abt u…. @Arun – request you to pls block this guy… Regardless and Thankless….

  110. @Arun – Can you please start a new blog where the blogs can be written by some knowledgeable persons? We can avoid PM, WantToInvest like immature folks who are fooling around? They both seems are good at mathematics. But they need fundamental real estate knowledge as well. They can be good matematics teachers in primary school. I request the bloggers to find a good job for them so that they can stop wasting our time on this blog. KK.

  111. @WantToInvest – I really laughig out loudly. The reason is – “You really don’t know anything about Pune and still act like an expert”, accept the fact. Seems you stay somewhere near Magarpatta and have developed such mentality. @Sipra – If you’re planning to buy then buy in Pimple Saudagar than Kharadi, Fursungi, etc. The reason is – Fursungi has no value as there is only IT park (SP Infocity – where IBM has main presence) and it’s worst locality to stay. If you’re planning to buy in Kharadi or Fursungi area, then buy only and only as Magarpatta City. The advantage of Pimple Saudagar – mainly Pimple Saudgar is populated area in that vicinity. Wakad, Pimple Nilakh, etc are not good to stay. Aundh is expensive and very crowded so not worth. Pimple Saudagar has taken good shape and if you can get a “ready possession” flat @ 2500 to @2700 – i think it’s worth buy. But please DO NOT BUY UNDER CONSTRUCTION flats as none knows when builder will complete the construction. Now if you talk about the cost – the ready possession flats are with the investors who would certainly like to wait for good price. Pimple Saudagar is closest to Mumbai – it’s hardly 2 hours drive to Thane and Navi Mumbai. Lot of folks from Mumbai like to stay there so the area is well developed. Builders don’t hold any ready possession flat and if they have any – those are not of good quality. So, forget everything – if you liked the flat and it’s reasonable rate – go and buy it. couple of lacs will come later but a flat worth of our choice is important. Fursungi, kharadi, vimannagar have water problems wherewas Pimple Saudagar has PCMC control and it’s well maintained. Also roads are widening up. It’s certinaly a good choice. I know GK builders have good reputation but they did not have good flats. Sun Crest is on that corner of Happy Thoughts ashram? It’s good area … but again please think over. that the main nasik road (140 mtr) wide. so don’t go for front facing. Go for inside flats. And please let me know before yo purchase. I read this blog and this blog will bring nothing but just talks. HBA won’t be functional for another 2 years. this fistful of talkers can’t change the Pune’s real estate. They all miss the basic fundamental knowledge. Anyways, i enjoy reading their immature comments. Best luck! dont get carried away. Cheers! KK.

  112. Hi Shipra, Along with Pimple Saudagar, there are many such areas where you could get a flat at your mentioned price, like, Phursungi, Kharadi etc. I mean the suburbs. Please do a research on the ‘psf’ rates in various locales. You can seek help from leading realty websites like for 99acres.com or magicbricks.com and create an inventory of rates in respective areas. With the help of such web locations, you’ll be able to do a self-survey. Additionally you’ll get inputs from this thread. Both these things will collectively help you get closer to a firm decision. Don’t fall prey to fancy ads in the newspapers or any other media. According to many of the property analysts, it would be wise to wait for some time. The deadlock between sellers and buyers is definitely gonna benefit the buyers, since, to resolve this deadlock, the sellers will be forced to cut down their rates. Regards.

  113. Hi! I am looking for a 2bhk flat in pune ,my budget is 25 -30 lakh max.,plz suggest what to do shall I wait or proceed .I have seen some flats in Pimple Saudagar coz that’s d only area in pune where I can get a flat in this budget .And any body has an idea about Malpani builder (The Crest) and Sidhivinayak builder ,Their quality of construction and after sale support.Plz suggest ,I am new to this thread ,today just by chance I got to read this ,ur doing a gd job of guiding d people and their hard earned money through this thread.

  114. So cheap of you to talk like that @Keshav. I have considered an average rate of 400-600 psf and that INCLUDES everything and all rises/increases, etc. Since you asked, let me provide you some data. Cost of steel in 2003 per MT (metric tonne) was ~ 25K (what did flats cost 700psf?) Cost of steel in 2009 per MT (metric tonne) is ~ 30K (what do flats cost 3000psf!!!) <> 20% up in 6 years, which a very very crude conservative calc shows to be ~3% per annum which is less than inflation! How can this meagre inflationary increase contribute to absurd property rates! A 1200 sq.feet built up area 2BHK is fairly priced at 20 Lakhs today. psf rate should be around 1300 psf. Anything over this is naked loot by the builder as I have demonstrated. It is no doubt that people are still buying at higher rates and will buy at these absurd rates with gullible folks like @Keshav around :) and then justify their ‘intelligent’ purchase :) BEWARE, builders in Pune today are selling 2BHKs like 700-800sq feet in 20 lakhs. This again is a marketing tactic. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. This sized flats should cost like 12 lakhs in good locality (A fair value). Defining FAIR – Good business for builder and good prices for home buyers. @Dheeraj, I am in for HBA.

  115. Hi all, Just one thing…… What is happening with HBA is anybody seriously interested in it or not please be clear. If we want to do it we can really make it happen, but when it is time for implementation, nobody is showing interest, that’s a crap. Arun is there any way that we can go ahead and form HBA with the people who has shown interest, instead of waiting for some more to join us?

  116. @Keshav, By the Way….Are you Arun’s father-in-law? I don’t understand the stupid reason why are you so concerned about our discussion… Arun replied back to me in a decent way and even I did it the same way the second time. So, the matter was solved and he’s trying to get back my post (which was thoughtfully written…not as rogue as yours…) Don’t get excited, over-react un-necessarily and burn your ass…Neither Arun did it nor I (in my second reply)… so shut your mouth and let things take their way… happy blogging :)

  117. @PM, You are really khajoor. Steel cost is increased, labour cost increased, all increased buddy. Is it gonna be borne by your daddy? Don’t misunderstand but you should be sensible while calculation. @WantoToInvest, Who the hell you’re to write nonsense stuff to Arun? Arun has been doing wonderful job and none of the comments have been deliberately deleted. You first should apologize to Arun. He has big heart that he posted your scoldings to him on his blog. None invited to come and shit on this blog. You should respect the blog and the author of this blog. KK.

  118. Can anyone deny what I am saying. If you plan to build a bungalow for yourself, 400 – 600 psf is what should be budgeted as cost of construction (Consultation, Labour & Material). The variation is for what quality you go for. 600 => Premium construction. Here is something I did to tickle myself – Builder purchases 100 gunthas of land for a project of 2 buildings, 100 flats each. A society is built on 100 gunthas (1 guntha = 1000 sq feet) of land having 200 flats. The land was purchased for 10 lakhs a guntha (1000 rupees per sq feet with registration)! => 10 crores. Builder divides the cost of land among 200 flats, so each flat owner pays 5 lakhs as part of cost of land in this NICE AREA. Each 2 BHK (of 1200 sq feet) here premium construction costs builder 600 psf. So cost of construction = 1200 * 600 = 7.2 lakhs. Total cost for 2 BHK of size 1200 sq feet = 13.2 lakhs Money spent on approvals and amenities by builder on this project happens to be 4 crores. He splits and adds this up in the flat’s price (2 lakh per head). So cost of flat = 15.2 lakhs (~ 15 lakhs). Good location and and premium construction. Now builder is doing business, so he obviously wants atleast 30% profit (10% to bank deta hai yaar. Equities give 15-20% averaged). So cost of flat that builder is selling comes to 20 lakhs. Premium construction with all amenities. With a 100% profit margin he would sell it for 30 lakhs and that is exactly what is happening today. 1200 sq feet sized flats cost somewhere around this price if sold for @2200 psf (Advertized as low price!!! – 100% profit margin is low price in Pune!). If builder is charging even more then imagine what kind of profit he is making! Going by regular trend that you pay around 3-4 lakhs more than psf price of flat, this flat should be FAIRLY advertized at 16 lakhs/1200 = 1300 rupees psf with decent profit to builder. Things actually sold for 900-1100 psf few years back in this city and 1300-1500 today sounds reasonable to me considering rising land prices and inflation and other bullshit. The fact is that it is really not the RAW COST of making a flat that has gone up (Although all builders keep saying that), it is the profit margin the builders are making. More than 150-200% in some instances. This is what needs to come down. Some more facts to tickle you: Cement was 130 per 50 kgs in 2006 (Approx) 210 per 50 kg in 2008 (Approx) Price rise = 50% Cement cost is less that 5% of the total construction cost, so this increase should only have an increase in 2.5% of the cost of a flat!

  119. @Arun, @WantToInvest, Seems the posts were LOST IN MAINTENANCE :) Not an issue. I more or less wrote the same thing in my earlier post which got dropped.

  120. Hi Arun, Thanks for your revert. FYI…even the comment of user “PM” has got deleted. I wasn’t aware of the maintenance activity out here. Anyways, please try and restore it, as I solicit some more replies on my comment. Thanks!

  121. Arun Prabhudesai

    Hi WantToInvest, I have not deleted any of the comments or posts, Ask any of 300 commenter’s, and you will know that. However, if you see my latest posts – last 2 days, we were carrying out certain upgradations, and you comment may have been lost during Migration – however, do not worry, I I will try and restore it as soon as possible. I encourage comments on this blog, whether positive or negative – and have never deleted any comment till date – please be rest assured about that.

  122. @PM, Even I had replied back to you with a detailed post! Who the hell deleted my post???????????? If the job of this website’s administrator here is only to sit and delete the posts, then why the shit has he opened the blog for all???? Let him alone have the discussion. I want my post back….this is a non-sense blog…..

  123. @Vikas, that regular price rise is called inflation and should be anyway expected. What justifies 300% rise in 3 years in this city? Do you think Pune was more livable 5 years back or is more livable now?

  124. @WanttoInvest. Had written a detailed post earlier. It did not make through for some reason :( Anyway, Things like the airport, etc. is all bullshit. This has been going on since over 6-7 years now for Chakan. Even if the airport is made which carriers are going to come and who is going to fly from there? Does Mumbai’s International airport which is not very far off have any issues? Can it not handle the ‘International’ traffic at present that we need another International airport within 150 kms! Proposed airport at Chakan makes no sense to me other than having a political agenda. About these manufacturing companies being around, they would have loads of workers and workers do not get the obscene salaries that IT professionals have seen in the past. I agree with the fact stated earlier that new levels would be set for IT industries also because of reduced billing rates, over availability of graduates, China & Latin America competition and recession. Pune too is not going to grow as it did in the past. It may see negative growth with companies opting out because of increased operational costs. I do not see an iota of increase in your investment today in Chakan over 5 years. This is my personal opinion. Please feel free to research before plunging into the deal.

  125. According to Freddie Mac, U.S. home prices have climbed 6.2% a year over the past 30 years. Numbers are similar if data is seen for the Indian market – however no single index is available in India to make such a confident statement in Indian conditions.

  126. According to Freddie Mac, “U.S. home prices have climbed 6.2% a year over the past 30 years. ” Numbers are similar if data is seen for the Indian market – however no single index is available in India to make such a confident statement in Indian conditions.

  127. Hi PM, It’s nice to read your sensible and thought comments on the property dimension in Pune. I’m planning to invest 10-12 lacs for a flat in Chakan, Pune. Albeit, having read your comments, it seems that you are not in favour for an investment in Chakan. However, looking at the big automobile shots aroung Chakan (Wolksvagen, Mercedes), the proposed International Airport etc., would a property in this area can lead to a better investment? Your thoughts please!

  128. Right. @Keshav talk of what you pay back. The property will never be worth that much so its a lose scenario. Also what is the guarantee that Pune will keep growing and all these fancy IT companies will stick around for long with increasing operating costs! We are buying flats to stay in them, not to let. Does Pune or your job guarantee that you would be here the next year? What is the urgency to buy now? Are we short of cheap rental places in and all around Pune? Hold on to your cash. You never know what is coming up tomorrow. The market is very dynamic. Governments are saying things but companies are still collapsing. Stock market is all satte-baazi (gambling). Its 300 points up and then 300 points down. Think like this, the builder makes profit because of the 300 points up and since you invested at that high level, you lose 300 points the next day because things were all made up by this smart lot. Also its not the absolute amount here, it is what you are getting for the money. There was this 2 BHK furnished Ad in TOI for 12 lakhs. Well it is in Chakan! I tell you, you can get a Bungalow for around 11 lakhs in Bhopal. Would you like to do that? Also see how these builders are playing smart and building these new 2 BHKs as small as 600 square feet and proudly announcing it at lower rates :( I have a feeling that again they will be in shit because no one wants a 2BHK less than 850 sq feet. Which sensible person is going to buy pygmy 2 BHKs. The rooms won’t even fit a folding cot let alone a queen size bed :( And they are going all around saying that people PREFER COMPACT HOMES these days! Who the f*** said that? I don’t want to live in a Servant quarter! Instead of all this, why not rent a good spacious 3BHK very cheap and live like a king. There are tons of such flats on rent in any area you name in Pune. Hold on till you really find something where your heart says – This is value for money. Till then happy timepass reading all those hoardings and newspaper ads by the builders :) day after day and feeling good.

  129. Hi All, How is everybody? well I agree with you Kiran it will take long 2+ years for recovery, but there may be some permanent damage to Indian economy, Like BPO’s if BPO industry wont take proper steps then US and UK already have other option like China some other country may also come up with very low labor cost, so ultimately ppl working in these kind of industries are going to get less salaries which will not allow them to buy such a costly flats. As Keshav said about decent flat, I would like to suggest him to wait and watch what happens, 35L will soon turn into 27 to 30L, if not then the whole project will held up, or will take at least 3 years for complete booking. 35L is unaffordable for the majority ppl who are employees, so forget about it. Though even last month was good for the share market but it has brought bad news for Job holders, alone in Last month ( April 2009) 534,000 people lost there job in US, now this is also going to affect IT and BPO’s in India, US has also announced that every US citizen should complete there Graduation and the government is going to provide them facilities to complete it, it means that NRI’s H1B1 holders will have lot of struggle and most are going to loose there jobs in 2010 end. people are ready to work for $ 3000 USD in US inspite of high Taxes. In coming months NRI investment in Realty will reduce drastically. Also the rate of flat booking cancellation will increase then the present. In my previous comments I already said that this rescission is going to set New Salary Standards which will be lower then 2007-08 in most kind of common Job’s. For now no matter what these builders says but what is heading up they knew it very well. so for to sell there current projects and to save them self from bearing loss they are spreading the rummer in market, For me it is no more different then a beautiful women looking for men or trying to attract men. I would just suggest you all guys… “Stay Away From AIDS”. What I mean is ultimately somebody is going to bear loss and these builders are trying to put that burden/loss on the house buyers,…. guys just play smart; even if you all don’t believe us, you can use your own logic and think about that the prices are coming down and they are not going to rise up so soon so you have lot of time to see the bottom. Think about all this you all can still wait for to buy your dream home. I still say wait for the right time to come, it has not arrived yet, if you wait it is for sure oyu won’t face loss at all. Our aim is to just help all, it is not intense to discriminate anybody, it helps all of us to think from all points of view before we all opt to give all of our hard earned money to the hart less builders. Keshav please don’t mind it but think on it, today it looks 35L but when you pay back it almost goes 60+L for the general house buyer (Loan+ interest for 15 to 20 years)

  130. @Yogesh – My observation – the 6 flats are odd flats and none buying them. Even builder reduces the price, none would like to buy nonsense construction. For premium flats, you need to pay reasonably good cost even in today’s market. This blog is good but lot of people have wrong perspection. Builders are not fool. You can’t buy good flat below 2500 in an under construction building. So 1000 sq ft = 25 lacs + other charges. So for a 2 BHK decent qukaity flat, 35 lacs is the right prices. Best luck. let me know which flat u have seen. Try park street – they have goot nice flats.

  131. Friends, The economy is now badly affected. Many guys have lost jobs and soon to come. Expert says that it will take 2.5 yrs to recover the situation. So its better to hold the cash. Please don’t buy flat. Even if flat’s rate goes down, there is no assurance of future income. These builders will not have any option than selling flats in low rate/loss!!! Many construction sites are now on hold and those which are ready possesion are getting older. Be wise and save yourself. Kiran More

  132. hi guys … I am reading this blog from last few days. I am tryind to buy a 2BHK in Pune from last 1 year but property rates are too high.and we cant even think of buying a flat in city. we have to look 20 / 30 km out of city and that means daily travel of 20 / 30 KM oneway in pune’s traffic. these builders are not ready to bring property rates down .. the difference noticed is the rates r down by 200/300 PSF only… and now builders are ready to negiociate… but how much can one even negiociate for 2 BHK of 45 / 48L ???????????? we cant bring it 25/28L ………………… i agree that same adds are displayed in paper from last 6 months (only 6 falts are available) this add from last 6 months .. means they have not sold even 6 flats in 6 months ………but still not ready to reduce prices ??????????????????????

  133. Arun Prabhudesai

    ALL, I have sent mail to more than 30 mails for 1st meeting of HBA, only 2-3 have got back to me. Guys, you ALL HAVE TO SHOW INTEREST to take this forward. Please reply to the mail I have sent you so that I can fix up a time to meet. I am looking at meeting tomorrow evening. PLEASE REPLY. Call me on the number given on my twitter profile http://twitter.com/trakin .

  134. EXCELLENT ARTICLE & TAKES IT TO THE DEPTH OF THE PROBLEM – A MUST READ – REINSTATES THE FACT THAT WHATEVER RECOVERY IS BEING MUCH TOUTED IS INFACT A HOAX & GAMBLING BY SOME HUNGRY INVESTORS – DON’T FOLLOW IT IF ONE NEEDS TO STAY SAFE & REAP BENEFIT OF LOWEST PRICES THAT ARE ACTUALLY THE “” REAL PRICES “” – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4465822.cms

  135. Thanks Darshit for your honest comments. What I mean here is not from any consultant or analyst but try to through light on what facts look like and what exactly we should be looking at & analyse what steps we need to take instead of the larger lot following analysts etc…. This is to our benefit. However, analysis that are presented to us through various media can be taken as a clue and can be analysed further on our own strengths and sense of judgement. No need to follow them blindly. READ THIS LINK AND PLEASEEEEEEE “”HANG ON”” – DON’T BUY – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/property-prices/further-correction-of-20-25-expected-in-property-prices.html#more-2547 & also read other links mentioned on your right hand side of the above web-link page.

  136. Lets also make sure not to invite unncessary people like, so called ‘great real estate blogger’ of the great pune city who does nothing but to misguide people by praising all and any builders and projects in city and in surrounding villages…

  137. Arun Prabhudesai

    I have sent mails to all the people interested in HBA. We have around 7-8 of them. We need more participation.Get your friends to join. Send mails if interested…First meeting tentatively planned for this weekend.

  138. Arun Prabhudesai

    PM, David, Darshit and all interested in HBA. I am actually surprised that you guys are saying, I had requested for the meeting and no one replied. I am more than happy to meet up and discuss this. Infact lets do it on this weekend. and I am not going to rely on emails anymore. Go to http://twitter.com/trakin and call me on my mobile so that we can set this up on priority basis. (I am not putting my mobile number here for spam purposes) Also, I have created a Twitter ID http://twitter.com/punehba , follow all the notifications from there. Now lets all of us get moving….SHow us some great participation.

  139. Guys, let us at-least meet. Arun, what happened? For giving advice – There is no problem. Only expecting the others to take is not wise. When you give an advice you have a strong reason to believe in what you are preaching … unless of-course you are fooling someone.

  140. I am also NOT interested in HBA. Sorry! I don’t want to attract unnecessary trouble. Best Luck.!

  141. I think Arun bhai not intrested forming HBA…. Prakash, PM can we go for this ?

  142. Discussion Point

    Hello! You have learned the most important lesson about giving an advice. You have also told it very well. Now, i have become wise. I will not give an advice and make a fool of myself. Kidding. Good post. Thanks!

  143. well Prakash , Actually i must say , i can not deny but agree to you. Infact what you have said makes sense…. Link – chain ripple effects , and you see and predict a dooms day ahead for indian economy and indian middle class — well i believe in all you said and all your economics made sense but the world has always and will always keep defying the theory and logic theory leading to any economic analyst . When the boom defied any logical thought as would be agreed by anyone , the fall is similar with there being more negativity and fear , caution leading to feel like a more severe recession than it really is. There is no problems in playing and living safe but doing this we become conservative and anything then requires more time to come out of it. This is not my comment contradicting your thought about further inevitable fall , but it says & believes things are near bottom and sees stability and some sanity to return to indian markets in general , base – for 2/3 years before +++. As i said earlier , i can in noways defy your economic theory but you never know …. as Analysts only see -ve then things go wrong and talk about growth when they go up…. they always make people cry bcoz when people believe them either they end up spending which is way beyond their comfort level or restrict spending even when they could ?? so i never believe them and for me my ability to buy / spend is totally based on my affordibility factor.(this factor was stretched way beyond in 2006-2007 by folks like us believe the theory of growtha nd only growth and hence compromised and paying price for fall now) If i can afford and if the price is legitimate , its buy time and if both dont match , then hold on and dont follow any theory… being more conservative , will never grow money …. well , lets wait for coming months , again the Mantra is Diwali – 09… I am interested in following this trend not just property but overall and lets see how big we Indians and India is impacted …

  144. Hi Guys, Yeah you are right, they are desperate and a lot needs to be unturned….. What I rightly call it as “”DISTRESS SALE””. This will happen in next 3-4 months. We all have to just HANG ON, that’s all. Yeah again you are right, if BJP comes to power at the least there is hope of revival else, its already in dumps and No Not At All the Commie 3rd Front……please save us all from this joke. Cong has looted India until date and will do so…. there’s no end to it….. HA! HA! HA! HA! CONG calls BJP Communal Party – come on JOKE OF THE MILLENIUM !!!! Its this CONG which started the MAJORITY & MINORITY FUNDA which itself is SO MUCH COMMUNAL then further it started the RESERVATION FUNDA which is clearly based on COMMUNAL AGENDA – What more one need. At the least BJP is talks of Hindutva which is mass of all hindu casts & creed. It talks of Uniform Civil Code to neutralize the Hazardous CONG creation of Muslim Vote Bank etc…. etc….

  145. In today’s Timepass Of India. Magarpatta City advertizes – front page. Oh Baby, it is getting too desperate. for those who stay close by would know how it started with these new Magarpatta projects: [1] No advertisement – People will beg for a booking [2] Big hoardings outside Magarpatta City – Hey guys we are open for bookings [3] Small hoardings in the main road driveway advertizing SPECIAL INTEREST RATES. See the interest rates have come down which means more affordable homes :) [4] Casual Advert in TOI few weeks back [5] Front page Ad in the name of Akshaye Tritya … and do you know who is paying for that Advert? :) How desperate!

  146. Property up in 10 years is again pure speculation. There are plots of lands and built up deteriorating properties (not in Pune) offered at less than what they costed 7 years back! If a politician decides to make an International School close-by then things may change, but that again is wishful thinking. To what I know, many village properties (like the ones in Pune – the most recent being Dhanori) are sold with this mis-information. Who the F*** is going to stay there? And why are we all ASSUMING that Pune will only grow? Can’t it shrink? Pune is a damn expensive place today. More expensive that the capital on India! Why would companies want to come here when other cities offer much less operational costs. Reducing operational costs is point number zero on all organizations list. They are doing this by layoffs, removing perks, reducing salaries and shifting offices. Focus on >>Shifting Offices<<. I know of even small offices being shifted from city centers to Pune outskirts. Not much time when they would not be anywhere near Pune. All this just needs a smart chief minister of a state to click. Gujarat is close by and I think it would witness a lot of exodus chiefly from Maharashtra. Anyone disagrees?

  147. Prakash, what you have written I agree with totally. There is just one thing you have to realise. Lowering of interest rates by US and India is going to screw us once more. It will cause inflation, making our currency worthless. The effect will be – what ever we have saved will lose in value relentlessly. And prices of real estate will move up. Not now, but 10 years from now, everybody owning a flat will be glad they bought. So if you have money sitting in the bank and there is something you need to buy – a house, car, vacation, house repairs, ANYTHING – better use your Rupee while it still has value. As for retired people – they wil be finished. Better bet on a BJP victory. They will be least inflationary. Congress has always caused inflation. But pray that the Commie 3rd front doesnt come to power – they will cause stag-hyper-inflation, totally finishing off India. Which is what the communist’s Chinese masters want to achieve. Venkat

  148. Addition to Point No. 2 : [1] Movies – at decent theaters costed only Rs.40-50 now with MUCH LESS SPACE it costs Rs.150-200 [2] Restaurants – earlier cost was Rs.70-80 for 2 persons now its Rs.120-140 for 2. [3] Monthly home expences earlier was Rs.4000 now its Rs.7000 HEY HERE MORE INFO TO SUPPORT MY 13th APRIL POST POINT NO. 1 – Reproduced below – 1. Global surprises are still hidden. US problems will resurface afresh with new artifacts which our normal eyes fail to see. This is Fiscal Deficit of over US $ 1.1 Trillion and each passing day is just adding to this deficit. US will not be able to come out of it as it has been perceived. Unemployment is at its peak and we will soon see new peaks being attained. Europe is lackluster for entire FY’09 & FY’10. Thus there is very little chance that economy will be robust anytime before FY’11. Read this Link for more Hidden Surprises from US – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/International-Business/3-more-US-banks-fail-lifting-this-years-tally-to-28/articleshow/4446882.cms IN TOTALITY NO. OF BANKS FAILED WORKS OUT TO : 56 Yet there is no bottom, with Huge Deficit of US and equally Growing Fiscal Deficit of India which is of GREAT CONCERN the situation will grow grim.

  149. Dear Darshit, Thanks for taking your valuable time to NOT UNDERSTAND the ROOT CAUSE. I still suggest DO ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS – For all that you have written in reply analysis I stongly feel that you will find all your ANSWERS to your QUESTIONS in my post, point no. 2 reproduced below – ITS THE REAL GURU MANTRA FOR YOU & ALL – ============ 2. Asian economies are stable only due to Exports to US & European markets. Thus, stimulus plans of China & Japan will just dry off in couple of months and will not assist in reviving the economy. Gone are the days where domestic growth supported the GDP. This view held by many analysts is actually vague since they fail to realise that domestic growth was in a way trigered by Free Flow of Credits and economy boost posed by their respective exports. This money was getting circulated within the country making it to feel as if the economy was growing internally. If this was the case then Indian & China should have retained respective growth rates of 9% & 12% irrespective of collapse of global economy. What I mean to say is – When the root dries, the tree normally dry a bit later & that’s the ground reality. =============== To Understand this GURU MANTRA one needs to understand the Cyclic Order of this Generation of Easy Credit & Perishing of this Money. Here is this explanation – [1] Just introspect and understand the intricate cyclical order of rotation of easy credit money, its misuse, its artificial nature, its a big blown ballon, how it made Govt. and general public believe that India is Growing @ 9% or China is Growing @ 12% [2] General public was made to believe that there is growth because of – (a) Origin of Easy Free Flow of Huge Credits starts from US & Europe. This is the ROOT CAUSE & A HOAX if one really understands it, remember (b) That Easy Credit Money is used to boost exports generating higher revenue, resulting in rotation of the same easy credit money. (c) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money results in building luxurious infrastructure, (d) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money results in increase of salaries by just 30-40%, (e) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money results in increase of commodity price by 50%, (f) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money results in increase of Property prices by 400%-500%, (g) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money results in increase of Hotels, Restaurants, Malls, Luxury or High End Versions made available at your door-steps in consumer goods or vehicles (cars etc) or education packages or tours & travels etc…. etc….. (h) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money that had increased individual income by 30%-40% year-on-year & was successfully SIPHONED OFF because the money people earned was re-circulated in the system by way of higher spending & WHOM DID THIS EASY MONEY ULTIMATELY REACH – ITS INDIAN BANKS & FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS & WHOM DID THIS EASY MONEY INDIAN BANKS ULTIMATE PAY TO ITS BANKS & FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN US & EUROPE, NOW AGAIN THE SAME US & EUROPE BANKS & INSTITUTIONS CREAMED THE PROFITS OF THIS MILK & RECIRCULATED THE TONED MILK BACK INTO THE SYSTEM, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN, IT WAS BY – buying of property at higher price thus paying nearly 25K – 40K as EMI to Banks, purchase of consumer goods-white goods on EMI’s, high rate of spending by purchases in Malls, spending for purchase of Vehicles like Cars on EMI etc…. etc…. (i) Rotation of this Easy Credit Money makes every one believe that Economy is Growing because of the above points. Companies believe as they are getting Easy Credit Money to circulate, this Easy Money is generating Export Business for US & EUROPE & the place where this easy credit money originates, Industry & Infrastructure believes economy is growing & they start building amenities, infrastructure etc…. with the same Easy Credit Money and they ensure that the so called growth in income is Siphoned Off . (j) For you who’s earnings increased from meager 15K to sudden 40K-70K, the effective rise of 25K – 65K never went to your bank account or saving or one NEVER BECAME A MILLIONAIR because of – Property Prices Increase by 400%-500% thus your House EMI itself is 25K – 40K, one spends in purcase of Car so another 7K-10K as EMI, one spends in Malls-High End Hotels-Restaurants-Tours & Travels another 10K Monthly, Spends in purchase of White Goods-Consumer Electronics at higher prices so another 10K-12K of EMI or draining of cash. EFFECTIVELY WHAT LANDS IN YOUR LAP AT THE END OF THE MONTH IS JUST 10K-15K WHICH ONE NEEDS FOR – Groceries, Education, Local Commuting, Electricity Bills, Internet Bills, Milk Bill, News Paper Bill, TV Cable Bill, etc….. etc…… WHAT EXACTLY FINDS IN YOUR ACCOUNT AT THE END OF THE MONTH IS JUST …. JUST 3K-5K AS ULTIMATE SAVING. This saving one needs to spend in buying Life Insurance or Bonds or PPF etc….. to save Tax. HA! HA! HA! HA! —– You Common Man You Are Finished —- This way. [3] Suddenly this Easy Credit Money Stops, thus stopping the Circulation, resulting in Stoppage of following – (a) Company finds it difficult to get US & EUROPE BUSINESS (b) Indian Banks find difficult to get US & EUROPE Easy Credit Money (c) Companies start taking strict actions – Lay-Offs, Cut in Salary, Cut in Amenities, No Increments, Cost Cutting to Survive coz they have got used to it by now….. (d) Industry starts feeling the pinch, as Exports to US & EUROPE START DROPPING, resulting in big difference in Supply & Demand Scenario (e) Employees or People spending comes to hault due to uncertain conditions, purchases stops, extra spending stops, (f) All Suddenly Starts to STOP the BUZZ, the THRILL, the GROWTH, EXCEPT HA! HA! HA! HA! – Yeah you got it PBAP & LUSTY BUILDERS. (g) Growth Falls from 9% to below 5%, China Growth drops from 12% to ~8%. [4] So my dear friend & friends this is the ULTIMATE CYCLE & GURU MANTRA. If India & China were Growing it was bacause it was back riding the HOAX, ARTIFICIAL EASY CREDIT MONEY. If India & China were really Growing because of so called Robust Domestic Demand etc…. then irrespective of all this they should have sustained not 9% & 12% but at least 8.5% & 11.5% something. BUT NO THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN. [5] We the so called Business Analysts, Business Guru’s etc…. fail to understand the VAGUE NATURE of this Growth & Fall. [6] PBAP & BUILDERS Refusing to accept this are the real Culprits, LOOTERS, BASTARDS…… your income growth of 30%-40% resulted in Property Price Growth of 400%-500%. You the People were Equally responsible for it since one never realised that this is result of Easy Credit Money Circulating in the System, no doubt for you it was your hard ended money unlike industry biggies. [7] US & EUROPE – CORRECT THEMSELVES TO YEAR-2000 LEVEL ALMOST, all prices come back to Year-2000 level. India rest of the lot starts coming back to Year-2004 level where it all started e.g. Bank Interst Rates BUT PBAP & BUILDERS NOOOOOO WAYYYYYYYY I HOPE THE “” GURU MANTRA “” AND THE EPICENTER OF ALL ACTIVITIES IS NOW CLEAR. THINK OF YOU, THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN, THINK OF YOUR FAMILY, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE THEM…… DON’T BUY NOW, SAVE YOURSELF, SAVE OTHERS……. Thanks Prakash

  150. Darshit/Prakash/All, Nice discussion. @HK, TOI acronym was nice. @David, I can write an article. Not a problem. I first want this HBA to be setup. Arun bhai, where are you and what happened to our meet? Since I do not read this everyday, please schedule something not before 2 weeks which gives me ample time to come back to this article. I have put my thoughts for some of Darshit’s questions/reasoning below: Why were people still buying in 05/06/07? >> Because of the greater fools theory :) Why have they stopped buying now? >> Because we have found the biggest fool :) … You can still find them if the greatest fool is ready to sell at 20% or 40% or 60% of their purchase price or else this biggest fool keeps the crown. Why did people not crib when rates were increasing in past years? [1] The flats still seemed affordable to them [2] Because they felt that the amenities provided were for real :) which they do not now :) [3] Because they thought their ceilings would not leak and their walls would not crack which they still do. [4] Because they thought, it’s different this time :) Does a fresher join at 2004 level or 2008 level? >> They do join at 2008 level but 2008 level is 30-40% higher than 2004 level attributed to inflation and industry (IT) growth. So we are not talking 300% rise in their pay package to afford a house at present rates! Onsite folks lost jobs or jobs shifted to India will create more demand >> Possibly these people will stay in ONE OF THE flats they already possess. I do not know any Pune person staying abroad not having a flat in Pune. So no fresh buying because of this. More people in Mumbai taken to cars >> The public transport is expensive! In Pune, traveling by auto-rikshaw is 3 times as expensive as traveling in a luxury petrol car giving an average of 10 kms/liter. Fine dining not in 2004 >> Another place to spend EASY money. Also attributed to the fact that every person dining there pays for their own food – Like working couples or would be working couples. Still un-affordable for single earning folks. The bigger social change because of this (working couples) is yet to be seen in India. Desire for a 25 year old .. >> Will die soon. Attributed to EASY money. 15K for a 12th grader who can’t add 2+2! BPO salaries to reduce by 50% in the coming year. So possibly one now needs 3-4 girlfriends or wives to buy this crap from PBAP. “Crap from PBAP”, it sounds like poetry :) Can’t compare India to US/Europe … >> You cannot, they are much more advanced/mature than us. About consumer spending, they have created a market to sell outdated technology in India. The LCD TVs you buy today in India use technology used and thrown away 5-8 years back in these countries. 30% below market level … 60% sold out … >> People bought shares at 21K, 18K, 16K, 14K, 12K, 10K, 8K … They always sell. We should be smart to differentiate between, who bought at 14K (and why?) and who bought at 8K. Who remembers ‘analysts’ speaking it cannot go below 10K? Simply not possible sir :) Today nobody want’s to predict the bottom :) So … things may not really crash in 4 months, but I see a downtrend with no bottom. This is something to do with sentiment .. the DESIRE Darshit mentioned. These hard times have made me think more for my and my children’s future than a house that is un-affordable, no value for money and for which I have no dire need today. Thank you all for reading through this.

  151. Folks, Recession is looming large on IT industry.So called ‘Stable Infosys’ is firing at a rapid pace.2100 already fired in the name of self cleaning process & now unconfirmed sources are telling that they are layoffs being done for taking personal print outs from office. Infy officials have admitted that its the worst time of their life,they are badly hit http://specials.rediff.com/money/2009/apr/16sld1-infosys-ceo-on-slowdown-and-the-way-ahead.htm No appraisals for Infocians this year: http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/apr/17/infosys-to-freeze-april-wage-hike-promotions.htm Hold tight your cash till the recession & layoffs scenario improves. Cheers, Ashwin

  152. Guys, think about it… the cash is dear… and the builders are already tight… if any of you or me buys something now there is every probability that the construction quality will be worse than ever. So even if the prices are down, and the builder as we know, sucks, they will definitely compromise on the quality of the product… some of you might be enticed to see lower prices but for sure lot will be compromised for now atleast, until they realize it as a fact of life and the thouhgt sinks in and all the fuss stabilizes… I would say hang tight on this… and let the prices be dragged down as much as possible… atleast some compensation for the quality you will buy… Akhil Sharma

  153. Friends, The recession time wont recover before 2011. So please hold the cash for survival. Dont have any EMI. Dont buy property. Coming days are very tough and be prepared. Kiran More

  154. Thanks Dheeraj & Prakash both for sharing your view points and special thanks to Prakash for thinking that i am a rep of PBAP.. well sadly though but i am another professional like you all and trying to understand the scenario for my personal benefit.. well i must say a well written & explained and i agree to most of it but i wont reply in length here but i the bubble had to burst and it did burst and i am also of the same view point. Please read my article above , who is responsible in the first place for creating this kind of bubble in the first place. was 2008 real estate prices the only one that was bloated , was not 2006 /2007 also bloated and why all just blindly kept on buying. why didnt people like you and others come together and stop this from happening, that the day 5 of bubble and 2008 – day 9/10 of this bubble. This is not a blame but am wondering why then noone came strong defying the buying , many professionals like us would have been saved then…This number is huge , very huge who would be currently underwater. Well all my focus here would be on price level drop in coming months in continuing with my previous post , Yes i havent done my homework but still i have some theories… 1)Ask a family to compare talk about their Family Budget (2004/08) 2)Ask a family to compare talk about Tourism Budget (2004/08) 3)similary salary 4)A simple day – Movies / Dinner 5)How many people own car Now as of earlier… 6)If one is hired , does a fresher join @ 2004 level or 2008 level and if i am not mistaken around 3L is the starting salary and infosys still honoring 28k employeed for this fiscal year … and similarly with other companies , they did have an impact but has impacted hiring , it has definitely impacted paying unrealistic salaries to professionals. in other words some sanity has returned to IT sector but overall it still stands firm and stable and i see this trend to continue as this economy is different from year 2000 , where IT was responsible for the crash and here it has an after effect. you are right with regards to US Market , but they always lived in debt and for them its just another figure… well even if the economy shows receovery signs , jobs will be lost well into next year , but are we talking here about USA… To tell you , this is benefitting , i have many onsite collegues and their onsite contacts have been terminated and more offshore positions being created .. so more Jobs back home , money coming in and then fuelling demand..This is the common case with almost all projects , push work offshore…. I am from Mumbai and you would be surprised , with so much professionals now commuting to work in a car , the employers were forced to charge Rs 4000 PM from the employees for parking if they needed a fixed place. i am sure not all would avail of this , but definitely some did and hence this practise by employers.(nothing changed since 2004) i would talk pure basic here , In pune do you see the new concept of “Fine Dining Restaurants”.. did you see them in 2004…. I agree nothing has changed except property , think about it , major change has occured with the way we live and see life of tomorrow … Desire and not need of a 25 Year Old professional of buying a house and Car created demand. Never before did a professional desire to own so early in his career and this desire still remains and hence the You cant compare US / Europre with India , India had never seen such consumer spending and all sectors benefitted , agreed it went a overboard and hence the bubble burst but to say that we will continue to fall to 2004 levels means a disaster. dont get me wrong i am not worried abt real esate PBAP prices here but i am meaning relative here , for prices to fall the entire Job Market of India / related Growth and GDP will have to crash and i dont see that at all happening. I am being positive here and i am trying to differentiate here with bloated prices with real prices and all in this discussion i am trying to reach the real prices figure. Moreover , if i am not mistaken we had slump in real estate from 1995 onwards till 2002 and it started to stabilize / gain strength only 01/02.. well in places like Pune not before 03/2004….all we want is the real estate prices to stabilize to more realistic terms & even if the markets turn +ve , a more conservative and restrained approach is needed to buy. You shared an article this Morning about Mumbai Andheri and Kurla , HDIL — These projects launched and got a good response(60%) from the buyers … why?? they were below the market level @ Launch — Yes (30%) (This is just launch and such projects take time to get completed and in such scenario who knows whether they will @ what pace) but nowhere close to 2004 levels — (still 100% of 2004 & still they got 60% sold out) This is Mumbai i am talking about and things could be a bit different for Pune but expecting to go to 2004 levels triggers a collapse and i dont see that happening or rather i wish that doesnt happen. anyways i will continue to read this blog and follow your comments and hope for the best for rest of 2009 / 10, 4 Months not too far … Thanks Darshit

  155. READ THIS LINK – IMPORTANT – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Real-Estate/Realty-Trends/No_clear_sign_of_recovery_in_real_estate_market/articleshow/4366527.cms

  156. Thanks Dheeraj for taking up the point. Darshit, the fact that my posting is in context to my previous analysis posted above in this chain. Enough of reasoning stated earlier. But my main doubt is do you really belong to IT Sector or you are a representative of PBAP trying to gauge the market feel by posing such irrational questions to people of Pune. Thus, you want to know what is happening in their minds, give a feedback to PBAP thereby they can strategise and stay connected to see that How Prices Can be Kept Constant – high as JAN-2008 etc… etc… I mean I can sense something fishy easily. Let it be. Lets take a review afresh – 1. Global surprises are still hidden. US problems will resurface afresh with new artifacts which our normal eyes fail to see. This is Fiscal Deficit of over US $ 1.1 Trillion and each passing day is just adding to this deficit. US will not be able to come out of it as it has been perceived. Unemployment is at its peak and we will soon see new peaks being attained. Europe is lackluster for entire FY’09 & FY’10. Thus there is very little chance that economy will be robust anytime before FY’11. 2. Asian economies are stable only due to Exports to US & European markets. Thus, stimulus plans of China & Japan will just dry off in couple of months and will not assist in reviving the economy. Gone are the days where domestic growth supported the GDP. This view held by many analysts is actually vague since they fail to realise that domestic growth was in a way trigered by Free Flow of Credits and economy boost posed by their respective exports. This money was getting circulated within the country making it to feel as if the economy was growing internally. If this was the case then Indian & China should have retained respective growth rates of 9% & 12% irrespective of collapse of global economy. What I mean to say is – When the root dries, the tree normally dry a bit later & that’s the ground reality. 3. IT boom which was the nerve of this so called growth is again dependant on US & Europe markets flourishing in their sunny days. Once this aspect dries it will impact directly on the IT industry forcing it to face the heat may be a bit later in the chain of actions & reactions. This has already resulted in Infosys, TCS and other majors anouncing lay-offs, few anouncing pay-cuts, few anouncing no growth in salaries. Overall triggering uncertainty for IT Industry. This will have direct impact on investment plans. 4. Banks are reluctant to lend to Construction Companies and wherever the bigges are successful in getting loans re-scheduled, they get it at a price…. i.e. higher interest rates and reduction in the total re-payment period, restrictions on so many fronts…. 5. Change in Government anticipated thus has a negative effect on the overall scenario. 6. The inflated prices of property is such a big blown ballon that with a meager 20-30% correction is NOT AT ALL going to trigger buying passion in this country. People of India have understood the game plan of these greedy builders. 7. Its a hard fact that this GDP Growth of India & China had its roots in US & Europe economies. Now if these economies have corrected to Price LEvels of YEAR-2000, and the India boom history started at the beginning of YEAR-2004 then to HELL with these LUSTY GREEDY BUILDERS they must correct Prices to YEAR-2004 levels mandatorily. I say this is the bare minimum requirement. They should infact go beyond by dropping to YEAR-2002 Price Levels. If they dont they will pay for it, if they do, then they will come out of the mess which they have created and no one else is responsible for it. 8. Share Market has no doubt gone up from 8K to 10K+ in last 1 months but this is not attributed to any kind of strong base either of domestic growth or global growth. This is pure speculation and manipulation by existing government and normally happens prior to any election in India. Please go back and trace the history you will notice this surge and sudden downfall soon after the results declared or during the government formation phase. 10K-11K will sustain only if Congress forms the government which is unlikely to happen under all given circumstances. So we again come back to square 1. okay. 9. Sorry to say, I feel you haven’t done the homework. The increase in cost of living, increase in salaries, increase in other amenities etc…. stated by you are the artifacts of this artifical boom created on basis of Free Flowing Credits. This is clear artificial growth. Just tell me what exactly has gone up 400%-500%, whether its your annual income, standard of living – nothing, I say NOTHING except for Property Prices. India is where it was in YEAR-2004 except for few groups who have made enough money out of this artifically created boom. So the BURST has to happen & has taken place. What builders are doing is trying to resist it as long as they can withstand on the basis of money they have milked during the last 3-4 years. This won’t carry them too far may be they can drag a bit more for next 3 – 4 months. Hence period of 4-6 months they will fall flat. If they don’t, then PEOPLE OF INDIA WILL STILL CONTINUE THIS STRUGGLE OF NOT BUYING EVEN A SINGLE HOUSE FOR ANOTHER 3 MONTHS TILL THEY COME TO YEAR-2004 PRICE LEVELS. How long will it last finally. There has to be an END and END will be with YEAR-2004 Prices of Rs.1100-1250 psf Rates and maintaining it for another 2 – 3 years. 10. Bank Interest rates are near YEAR-2004 LEVELS and will touch in the next correction anticipated on 21st April RBI Meet. Oil has fallen immediately to YEAR-2002 LEVEL. You name it and it has corrected to YEAR-2002 & YEAR-2004 LEVELS then WHY NOT PROPERTY???? 11. HELL MAN….. YEAR-2002 YEAR-2004 Parking was available at meager Rs.25K – 35K. MSEB, Society, Maintenance etc…. was meager Rs.20K-30K. Now these GREEDY LOT have increased it to Rs.1.5 Lacs – 2 Lacs Parking, MSEB etc…. to Rs. 80K…… BAAP KA MAAL SAMAJ KE RAKKHA HAI KYA…. FOKAT NAHI AATA PAISA SAAALO….. 12. So wake-up, and awaken others. Show them these facts, make them understand. Make them understand that these Builders are riding on emotions of innocent people of India, People of Pune. 80% of home buyers are salaried people with a dream of owning a good house in decent locality. Dream of giving a good life to their parents, wife, children. BUT these GREEDY, LUSTY BUILDERS are trying to sqeeze them. Its our HARD EARNED MONEY which we have to pay for next 15 – 20 Years in EMI’s. If we save now, by not buying single flat and in fact buying at YEAR-2003 YEAR-2004 PRICE LEVELS we will save on an average Rs. 10K – 15K PER MONTH OF EMI. This is awesome money man for any salaried person. There are many more reasons & analysis. I prefer to stop here and suggest read previous posts where you will get few additonal points. SUMMARY – == DON’T BUY EVEN A SINGLE HOUSE TILL THEY REACH YEAR-2004 LEVELS== == HELP YOURSELVE, HELP OTHERS == == MAKE A BETTER LIFE WITH YOUR OWN HANDS & GIVE A BETTER LIFE TO YOUR FAMILY & CHILDREN == == FLOG THESE LUSTY GREEDY BUILDERS ==

  157. Hi guys, Darshit, I appreciate ur views, I also agree with Prakash, well if we think smart at this point we can wait for at least 4 months that much time we all have with us, now think in this way, property prices are gone down already, lots of people lost there jobs or salary are being reduced, in such a situation no company are going to suddenly raise salaries at least for 1 or 2 years. As now the companies wants to make trends of low salary in India and all over the world, so they can gain more profit or make recovery, so in this case even though the share market goes up only companies will be in profit not the employees and employees are the one who gives the business to builders, so if the prices are not affordable no body is going to buy or invest in properties. so ultimately builders will not have much business for this period and if they want to do business then they will not raise the prices again they will not take any kind of risk, and if builders wants to hold there projects for 2 years or so, again they will be in loss as they also took loans from banks and all and the rate of interest on big amounts are not bearable, So now the overall thing is that they can’t take risk to raise up the cost of property and neither can just hold up the progressing projects as also the old pending construction will cost at depreciation value and people will also try to avoid it. so we can now expect more fall in properties and wait for more 4 months we’ll still gain before increasing the rates of the properties they will have to stabilize the rates first then make a continues trends and as the salary trends increase the rates of property will again increase. Don’t forget that the major factor for up going property rates is salary hikes in BPO’s & IT industries. so as far as these industries are struggling we can hope +ve with Prakash. well I think we all can think more deep in this and can get another view. after all it’s all our hard earned money. what u say?

  158. Hi guys, Darshit, I appreciate ur views, I also agree with Prakash, well if we think smart at this point we can wait for at least 4 months that much time we all have with us, now think in this way, property prices are gone down already, lots of people lost there jobs or salary are being reduced, in such a situation no company are going to suddenly raise salaries at least for 1 or 2 years. As now the companies wants to make trends of low salary in India and all over the world, so they can gain more profit or make recovery, so in this case even though the share market goes up only companies will be in profit not the employees and employees are the one who gives the business to builders, so if the prices are not affordable no body is going to buy or invest in properties. so ultimately builders will not have much business for this period and if they want to do business then they will not raise the prices again they will not take any kind of risk, and if builders wants to hold there projects for 2 years or so, again they will be in loss as they also took loans from banks and all and the rate of interest on big amounts are not bearable, So now the overall thing is that they can’t take risk to raise up the cost of property and neither can just hold up the progressing projects as also the old pending construction will cost at depreciation value and people will also try to avoid it. so we can now expect more fall in properties and wait for more 4 months we’ll still gain before increasing the rates of the properties they will have to stabilize the rates first then make a continues trends and as the salary trends increase the rates of property will again increase. Don’t forget that the major factor for up going property rates is salary hikes in BPO’s & IT industries. so as far as these industries are struggling we can hope +ve with Prakash.

  159. Hi guys, Darshit, I appreciate ur views, I also agree with Prakash, well if we think smart at this point we can wait for at least 4 months that much time we all have with us, now think in this way, property prices are gone down already, lots of people lost there jobs or salary are being reduced, in such a situation no company are going to suddenly raise salaries at least for 1 or 2 years. As now the companies wants to make trends of low salary in India and all over the world, so they can gain more profit or make recovery, so in this case even though the share market goes up only companies will be in profit not the employees and employees are the one who gives the business to builders, so if the prices are not affordable no body is going to buy or invest in properties. so ultimately builders will not have much business for this period and if they want to do business then they will not raise the prices again they will not take any kind of risk, and if builders wants to hold there projects for 2 years or so, again they will be in loss as they also took loans from banks and all and the rate of interest on big amounts are not bearable, So now the overall thing is that they can’t take risk to raise up the cost of property and neither can just hold up the progressing projects as also the old pending construction will cost at depreciation value and people will also try to avoid it. so we can now expect more fall in properties and wait for more 4 months we’ll still gain before increasing the rates of the properties they will have to stabilize the rates first then make a continues trends and as the salary trends increase the rates of property will again increase. Don’t forget that the major factor for up going property rates is salary hikes in BPO’s & IT industries. so as far as these industries are struggling we can hope +ve with Prakash. well I think we all can think more deep in this and can get another view. after all it’s all our hard earned money. what u say?

  160. well I would love to agree with Prakash in what he is saying but i dont see any analysis provided by him to support this . I am also a IT professional like you most guys and have interest to understand real estate trends & followed this blog and several other blogs since long but i am unable to follow the recent comments. When i read the comments that this from Prakash, i feel that he desires and wants(speculations and predictions) but no supporting analysis. See there is no harm in predicting for prices to fall to 2004 but on what basis? world has changed tremendously since 2004 , agreed the economy is not doing great yet but India had a minimal impact. Are we ready to take the salaries to 2004 Levels(people had 100-200% rise in this time period) Cost of Living has increased? Overall Stock Market had 6k – 19k(Back to 10k & moving up)(((follow this sign for real estate signs) Crash in real estate is mainly due to over bloated prices but it doesnt mean that 2004 levels a logical price. All i am saying here is , waiting too long might hamper al of us as we may never know when this takes a UTurn and we may no longer be able to benefit from current low prices and believe me current low prices are interesting atleast the ones with ready possession. Under contruction has a genine financial problem i believe. Real estate was the last to be impacted when other thngs were effected and it will also show +ve signs when other things move out and believe me when these symptoms come again , the PBAP will not sell any inventory till they see the boom again and jack up all prices again…so we loose the chance to save money? Again i said this is still speculation from my end too , but we all know this quarter and results will decide which way economy headed. Its all related , so if Earlier there was a very healthy conversation between dutt & Ranjeeth and Ranjeeth came with very nice analysis and supporting data that made us believe him. Prakash if you have some data and not articles by others that are used to keep the print medium working , might help myself and lot of other folks.

  161. Also, READ THIS – http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=b70d8ce2-51ed-48d8-813e-60e1ced91078&Headline=Buyers+fight+back%2c+exit+stalled+housing+project AND READ THIS – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Features/The-Sunday-ET/IBA-asks-PSBs-to-help-realty-cos-finish-projects/articleshow/4390150.cms BUILDERS ARE CRYING FOR SURVIVAL AND WILL SOON COME TO TERMS. == WE HAVE TO JUST WAIT WITHOUT GIVING A SINGLE CHANCE FOR BUY == == THIS ALONE WILL BE OUR SUCCESS PATH ==

  162. Folks, Its largely agreed that DLF and Unitech primarily set the trend for realty in India. Lets see whats the fate of these guys – DLF Offered 20% Discount over and above the Low Price they had offered, yet People who bought flats paid booking amounts, are now demanding EXIT OPTION altogether (i.e. rejecting 20% further discount offered by DLF). This is the same report published by so called PBAP Cartel Partner News Papers of Pune that Property is staging return with 2% – 3% rise in bookings in the Jan-Mar quarter. DLF has SCUMED to Pressure & agreed to give EXIT OPTION. Day is not too far when PBAP of Pune will also come to terms with Reality of Realty and offer YEAR-2004 PRICE LEVELS of Rs.1100-1250 psf Rates. Just wait for another 4-6 months. Better to stay with minimum liabilities of a rented place and enjoy the downfall of ego of these builders. This is a BIG BOOST to our ongoing fight with PBAP to come to YEAR-2004 PRICE LEVELS. IT WILL HAPPEN IF WE STAND UNITED & DONT GO FOR EVEN A SINGLE BUY IN NEXT 4-6 MONTHS. READ THIS REPORT – AWAKEN YOURSELF AND OTHERS – DON’T GO FOT A BUY- http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/dlf-offers-exit-option-to-irate-customers-of-new-town-heights-project.html#more-2467 == PLEASE INFORM ALL YOUR PEERS, RELATIVES, FRIENDS, UNKNOWN PEOPLE WHO TALK OF BUYING NOW == STOP NOW TO EARN BETTER DEALS FOR TOMORROW == == THINK OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY == THINK OF YOU GIVING A BETTER LIFE, AMINITIES, LUXURY TO YOUR CHILDREN FROM THE BIG SAVINGS OF NEARLY Rs.10K – 15K PER MONTH FROM EMI’s TO BANKS ==

  163. Hi Guys, Can we, all the members of this thread,will publish a news paper against these builders..because we are few members and this message should be spread all over Pune. PM , do you write article for us to publish this as you have good observation of pune property.

  164. Folks, Get this bullshit from POORVA HEIGHTS, PASHAN-SUS ROAD Project. I had enquired with this fellow in August-2008. The rates quoted were Rs.3300 psf. I said okay, they will come to reality in few months and skipped it. I called them yesterday i.e. 12th April 2009 and to my surprise the fellow quotes Rs.3600 psf claiming quality construction, access road, water etc…. and says come to site we will negotiate. ==== MAN CLEAR BULL SHIT ==== PBAP is trying all means to screw people of Pune. Now let People of Pune screw the PBAP and all its branches. DON’T GO FOR EVEN A SINGLE BUY FOR NEXT 6 MONTHS, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED TO SEE BUILDERS ON THEIR KNEES YELLING FOR YEAR-2004 PRICES AND WE WILL THEN QUOTE THEM YEAR-2003 PRICES AND GET POSSESSION OF FLATS. Take it or Leave it. This must be the fate of PBAP and all its branches else we the People of Pune will suffer. Why only TOI, please read SAKAL or DNA or Maharashtra Times or Indian Express or any other News Paper, PBAP has entered into Cartel and News Papers have Sold themselves to PBAP like Prostitutes, Keeps…… Bull Shit Man. Even all Internet dot.com fellows show crab figures of January-2008 and upon question does not agree to drop down prises. SCREW THEM ALL. DONT BUY EVEN A SINGLE FLAT. Those who bought flats & was reported by bullshit papers in big way, that hopeless consultant JLLM some Meghraj too made it big of return of realty etc…. are the same people now asking for RETURN OF BOOKING AMOUNT, stagging Dharnas, screwing builders to pay back money. THIS IS THE REALITY and NOT THAT IS SHOWN TO US THROUGH VARIOUS REPORTS – READ THIS – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/35-fall-is-expected-in-residential-property-rates.html#more-2460 READ THIS – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/retailers-shut-shop-at-dlf-south-delhi-malls.html YOU MUST READ THIS – http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=b70d8ce2-51ed-48d8-813e-60e1ced91078&Headline=Buyers+fight+back%2c+exit+stalled+housing+project WE MUST START WRITING TO ALL NEWS PAPERS OF PUNE AND BUILD PRESSURE TO REPORT THE LATEST PRICES AREAWISE ELSE WE WILL START NEGATIVE PROPOGANDA OF YOUR NEWS PAPER IN CITY. ==== DEKHO BHAI ACHHAI KA JAMANA NAHI RAHA, JISKE HAAT LATHI USKI BHEIS. DHAMKAO TO SIDHE RASTE CHALENGE YE LOG. ==== I HAVE THOUGHT OF IT….. NOW ITS YOUR TURN TO TURN OUT AND MAKE IT HAPPEN IN YOUR INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY…. WHAT ABOUT HBA (HOUSE BUYERS ASSOCIATION)?

  165. Sensible people in India stopped believing TOI data ages ago. But it might still probably be worth for timepass, if at all. TOI = Timepass Of India :)

  166. Welcome to Times of India (TOI) Saturday Property bullshit supplement. As per TOI corrrespondent (believe she is reporting from New York :)), new projects have been launched in the past 2 months and have REPORTEDLY been sold out :) Builders (read PBAP) as always say its the bank’s fault of higher interest rates :) Madam, please see in today’s supplement even MAGARPATTA has advertized! These folks believed till now that they need no advertisement! Very arrogant folks – you could know that when they launched the now doomed Nanded City project. What clues does this give you? Week after week benchmark rates reported by this sleepy organization (Some Italian and Desi company mix – Something Meghraj) do not change. Believe they have been the same since I have started reading this supplement 2 years back (I think instead of doing their research these guys go to the PBAP office and ask, Sir, kitna likh doon:)). TOI and this benchmark brother company all make money from PBAP. And you the house buyer pays for all this crap in terms on increased psf rates. See the irony, your money is used AGAINST you! As per this week’s article, everybody is happy. The builders are happy and buyers are happy. Do you sense bullshit going on … and that too in a newspaper like TOI. Well lots of bullshitting happens but this one is so glaring that I could not resist. To dismiss benchmarks, office sales folks who sit in the Sales office of projects in Kharadi are quoting 2400-2800 NEGOTIABLE (Depending on which project you personally visit). This Benchmark tells you KHARADI 3000 – 3500 All text, no mention of specific projects, no mention of rates, no mention of trend with stats. Only statements made by the lion (read PBAP members) – I have turned vegetarian :) So as Prakash guides us above, guys where is the NEED to buy your own house? Is there a shortage of good rentals in the city today – There is in-fact an OVERSUPPLY of them? Save your hard earned money, it will help you and your family in times of need. There will always be a right time and global clues would tell you that.

  167. Floks, Read this and u will be AMAZED with the reality of Realty market – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/property-prices/next-5-6-years-may-witness-60-decline-in-real-estate-prices-edelweiss.html This is THE Reality of Realty. So don’t get bogged down by threats from PBAP or some funky analysis / predictions by X, Y, Z person on this blog or elsewhere. Read these links too – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/nri/depleting-nri-interest-force-developers-to-put-projects-on-hold.html BEWARE OF THIS TREND AND RESIST TILL THE LAST MOMENT – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/pune/city-developers-reluctance-to-drop-prices-provides-business-opportunity-to-hometown-developers.html Guys, remember, propagate, create awareness, convince other guys, do whatever you can do to make it happen – WHAT – DON’T GO FOR MEAGER 20-30% DISCOUNT SCHEMES OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF SCHEMES LAUNCHED BY BUILDERS JUST TO WOOO CUSTOMERS. REAL SAVING FOR YOU WILL BE WHEN BUILDERS DROP TO YEAR-2004 LEVEL @1100 – 1250 psf RATES. == REMEMBER ALWAYS ==

  168. REALLY MAN……………. NOW A DAYS CAR IS NOT A LUXURY BUT A PARKING IS !

  169. Hey Ashwin, The problem you are facing is what many of us here do – where is the value for my money? 1.75L for covered parking. You get the sunshine yellow Nano LX for that price! O I would die for it … but a covered parking for that price. Are you crazy :) Seriously. 1 covered parking should be free with every flat. Everyone owns a car these days. They are not a luxury anymore. Builders are just looting us. Check the cars they own :) LAND ROVER and what not. Who paid for that? You! It should have been your car. It is heartening to see that there is STILL ONE GULLIBLE for every 25 potential buyers. Sad. Very sad. Guys, there is only one solution to this greed. STOP BUYING FLATS completely till sanity returns. Believe me there are enough flats are good prices available on rent in Pune. Why do you need to buy one where you can clearly see the LOOT. This is your hard earned money. Here is a nice incident. I went to enquire about a 3BHK on rent this weekend. The broker quoted 12K as rent for this 1650 square feet flat. I asked why the high prices. He said the owner bought it for 50 Lakhs. I replied – That is his problem. I am not here to pay his EMI. He had no reply. There are no takers guys for these crazy rentals also. Walk to Kharadi (my area) and get 3 BHKs for 9K on rent in good societies. It may not have a jacuzzi, but do you care? Don’t believe me – Check on m a g i c b r i c k s

  170. Folks, Builders are badly hit …I spoke to one of receptionist at Pimple Saudagar area (since I stay at that place)she said that the conversion ratio of enquiry to booking has come down from 4:1 to 25:1 :):) Thhose project which are in construction phase the work is going on very slowly…builders are in helpless state. The upcoming projects are on hold. @PM One of the instance where the builder boasts of “different theme flats ” is Rajaveer palace by GK builders…in which the flats are bult on palace themes.Rates at 3300 psf,project would still take another year for completeion.Crazy loot … Similarly my neighbour who owns flat enquired about covered parking …rate 1.75 L !!! This is too much …Still I do not understand the concept of open & closed parking.Common yar its the free space which builder could not utilize so he’s started selling it…& we people mindlessly purchase it.

  171. CORRECTION: There is a small typo in the calculations above. Your profit from buying property should be 11.72 lakhs instead of 11.42 as mentioned and so you make 1 lakh more speculative in 3 years than playing safe in an FD. Calculation in a Loan scenario ——————————————– I said above that the calculations do not hold true when one takes a loan and is completely at loss. Some real calculations reveal that if the same 3 year investment period, cost of flat and rent are considered then one may lose money to the tune of 71K per annum! Obviously, it does not take into consideration all the hassles arising from such buying/selling, brokerages, processing fees, prepayment charges, etc. etc, which if considered would show such a deal as being completely non-sensical. Purely for investors, here is the true picture. You like this ready possession Park Street flat in Wakad for 40 lakhs. You plan to make a killing by investing in it. You can only get 80% loan from bank that is 32 lakhs. You can cough up 8 lakhs lying in your bank to make it 40 lakhs. You take a loan at 10% floating from any bank (1% more than deposit rate) for 15 years. Commonly available calculators on the internet show EMI for this as 34386 per month. Similar calculators say that by the end of the third year, you would still owe the bank 28.77 lakhs. At the end of the 3rd year you sell your 40 lakh flat for an appreciated price of 48 lakhs (20% growth speculative). Over these years you were lucky to get a cool unrealistic rent of 12K per month. So you earned 4.32 lakhs as rent. You now have made 48 + 4.32 = 52.32 lakhs from this investment. You paid 70K as Capital Gains Tax on 8 lakhs (See previous post). So you really made 51.62 lakhs after tax. Now time to calculate how much you invested to make 51.62 lakhs? Over 3 years you pay back – 36 x 34386 ~ 12.38 lakhs in EMIs. You still owe the bank 28.77 lakhs. If you had invested 8 lakhs for 3 years at 9% in an FD, you would have made 2.41 lakhs. So real cost of this investment is: 12.38 + 28.77 + 2.41 = 51.56 lakhs So without having 40 lakhs cash, your investment has given you a cool 6K speculative in 3 years (2K per annum return). If you did not do any of this as just put your 8 lakhs in a safe FD, you would earn 73K per annum as interest money! So you lose 71K per annum over 3 years when taking a loan for this investment. Hope these calculations help someone. Days of investment in property are gone. Even the 20% appreciation used by me for illustration is not practical. You may not be in a position to sell your property at your buy price even after 5 years for the simple reason that you bought it at a crazy over inflated price today.

  172. Hey Keshav. So you are an investor. Good to know that. Well investment in property was good around 3 years back when it was like all sanity. Not anymore today. Investing in land, I completely agree with you about all issues that can be and is best for regular guys to stay out. It’s very very tricky. Today even equities is screwed up. Job market is bad :( So what to do? The gurus say that in such times CASH IS KING. Let us do some calculations with assumptions in your favor, like you have a tenant all thru 36 months without your flat lying idle for even a month. You do not pay maintenance for the flat you bought (which may be 2-3K per month). You do not spend on internal maintenance, like leaks in bathroom (Quite common because of excellent construction quality by reputed PBAP builder in Pune). You yourself do not change flats because your lease agreement got over, etc. So … all in your favor. You lucky guy. Let’s assume you had 40 lakhs cash lying idle in your bank account.You INVESTED this in Park street flat. You are earning 12K per month from rent for a 2BHK (Which is really really high. You lucky guy). Let me assume you have no other income so you do not pay tax on this. In 1 year you make 1.44 lakhs from rent. In 3 years you make 4.32 lakhs as rent. Assuming in 3 years time your property is worth 20% more (pure speculation) which you sell. So that is 48 lakhs. Capital gains Tax (20%) on 8 lakhs (after taking a realistic Cost Inflation Index of 1.12 over 3 years) would be close to 70K (Here I have exercised the previous assumption that you did not spend anything for maintenance of your flat in 3 years). Nett profit in 3 years = 7.1+4.32 = 11.42 lakhs. The FD interest you get today is 9% (was 11.5% 4 months back possibly when you bought your flat). Assuming you have no other income other than this interest, you would be paying approx 10% of this as tax, your nett profit/earnings come to 8.1% only. 8.1% of 40 lakhs compounded semi-annually for 3 years is 10.75 lakhs. So one has to choose between a no guarantee, all hassle, discountly calculated, nightmarish 11.42 lakhs vs a safe guaranteed 10.75 lakhs LIQUID CASH available the next day you want it. What would you choose? Hey you already choose to buy a flat at a crazy price. You lucky guy. Earning a speculative 70K more that others who did not go for the kill. These calculations do not hold true if you have taken a loan to buy a house because then one is completely at loss. Also a person who FD-ed his money at 11.5% would have made close to 13 lakhs tax paid interest money in 3 years using above calculations with tax adjusted to 15% instead of 10% for higher income. But that is history, so let us forget it. Buying a flat TODAY is more for emotional reasons than for investment purpose … and one needs to do that very sensibly. I’ll not talk about Wakad and all. Let some one else who is more familiar than me comment on Wakad being in the city. Hint: Please use Google Earth to do distance calculations :)

  173. @PM – I am also investor so don’t worry about where I’m working and all. I agree in Pune there is no centralized location as “IT Park”. Pune has got “IT park(s)” :-). Anyways, I would prefer to stay on rent near my office and put my house on rent. Land is good option over buying flat. But, you don’t get land cheap and litigation issues as well. Apart from taxation, you haven’t thought of the monthly rent as well. You get good rent now a days. I have 2BHK in Park Street, I bought at 40 lacs and fetching me rent of 12K. Mine is a garden facing, beautiful flat. You know how well park street is. So basically, I think it depends on which location you chose. Go to park street, Wakad – You will be happy. I think 2800/- garden facing for a ready possesion is quite good rate there. I’m not marketing or not intending to sell my flat as such, but i know it’s one of it’s kind of project. Green , quiet place. in the city and still far quite as well. Cheers! KK.

  174. Not talking of property, this will give you a fair idea on what to expect as companies announce their books in the days to come. PBAP builders however would surely announce a profit. Thanks to all the gullibles they could still milk in the past financial year :) 28 billion Euros loss! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/Fortis-bank-announces-28bn-loss/articleshow/4338787.cms Sensex to break 8000 – Only a matter of time http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/article/news_article.php?autono=391076&special=mkt_topnews

  175. @Kiran, rates quoted seem attractive, but a lot of other factors need to be taken into account, specially other projects by similar builder and the square feet area. 7 lakh for 300 square feet is expensive :) Location also does matter a lot, so if it is in like Chakan or Talegaon villages, forget it. You won’t be travelling 50 kms one way I presume. These days everything 100 kms within Pune Rly station seems to be publicised as Pune :) so new comers to Pune BEWARE. The benchmark areas when we say 1BHK, 2 BHK and 3 BHK should be (built up area): Slum rehabilitation scheme – < 600 sq feet (You get this for the land you give up) 1 BHK – 600-800 sq feet (Should be under 10 lakhs) 2 BHK – 800-1100 sq feet (Should be under 15 lakhs) 2.5 BHK – 1100 – 1300 sq feet (Should be under 20) lakhs 3 BHK – 1300-1800 sq feet (Should be under 30 lakhs) 4BHK and above – You would not be on this forum :) (Carpet area may be lesser) Also we are not discussing Amanora (non India project for non Indians) where a teeny weeny 2 BHK starts at 59 lakhs :) BTW you get a Railway Station free with it if you care :) I don’t know if they still sell this. It’s one funny project I know of in Pune. Other please post such other loot/unrealistic projects if you know about.

  176. I understand Keshav. Till it is not in the newspapers and announced by builders/PBAP, people feel that the rates have not come down and they don’t even feel like making an enquiry even though they have loads of cash. It’s the value problem I say. I see no value for my hard earned money. I completely agree with you on your HOLDING policy, but unfortunately not everyone can hold, especially those on credit. Also with all your cash, what is the point if you get 20% (speculative) more for your property in 3 years time from today? It wiser to sell now, put the money in bank and get more than 20% (assured) in return. I have ignored all taxation rules here for simplicity. Also today, there are more chances that you get laid off and are forced to take a new job. There is no single IT park in Pune. Its all spread across, so if your work happens to move away from your existing house, it may be like 25-30 kms one way travelling everyday! It may also be that you look for opportunities in another city. Stay on cheap rentals close to your workplace till the times of stability and sanity and back. It will take not less than 2 years for the markets to revive. The point I wish to make is – What is the reason for desparation for home buyers if they are happy staying in a rented acco of their choice! and believe me there are plenty everywhere in Pune at good rates. Its only the sellers who are desparate today for reasons of the property bubble coupled with PBAP attitude that only applies to the city of Pune. Another point – Investors today are investing in land and no one wants to buy shit property in far off locations ar crazy prices. This is the general opinion of the group here. Lastly this is not a seller’s forum and we are all well researched folks.

  177. I believe we have reached rock bottom and expecting further reduction is foolishness. Please be very careful while buying the under construction property as it won’t be completed in 5 years, whereas the ready property won’t be sold at cheap rate as sellers like me are waiting for the right price according to us. happy to receive your feedback, comment at kamat79@gmail.com Cheers! KK.

  178. Mr Gera is not in sync with Mr Jain. Gera claims in Pune mirror today (Mar 31, 09) that property prices have drpped 30% and in some places are to the rates that existed 2 years back. Jain (ROCK-BOTTOM guy) says prices cannot go down further :) Over all, every week TOI keeps on publishing absurd benchmark proerty rates for various areas in Pune. No one is in sync. TOI needs to do a lot more to build confidence in teir property news. Presently its all bullshitting and publishing what they get paid for by PBAP.

  179. Friends, Few days back I saw one ad 1 BHK for 11L and 2 BHK for 16 L. Today my work mate saw one ad 1 BHK for 7L and 2 BHK for 10 L. Its better if we wait for some more time. Kiran

  180. Arun Prabhudesai

    To all who are interested in HBA, Extremely sorry that there has been no update over last few days from my side on HBA. I have been out of station for last 2 weeks due to some unplanned visits, hence could not meet up for HBA. I will shortly be announcing the date and venue for HBA meeting. I am planning the meeting somewhere around camp area. I am open to suggestions. We could even meet up at someone’s place, if it can accomodate. Also, there have been couple of Newspapers who have contacted us, and they would be interested in covering us as well. So media coverage can really help propel this HBA Organization. The Agenda for the meeting would be too identify key members who could give couple of hours every week for the sake of this organization and also to form a first draft guideline on the vision of this organization. I have around 10 members who have emailed me showing their interest. I would also urge more members to send an email at admin at trak.in . I will announce the dates and venue on 4-5 of April. Lets do it !!!!!

  181. Arun…. Whats about HBA ? When we are forming HBA assocation ?

  182. Hi Guys, Check these links WORTH IT – http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/19214909/DLF-begins-refunds-to-some-buy.html http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1241110

  183. Hi Guys, Check below link – 53% PROPERTIES UNSOLD – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/53-built-homes-remain-unsold-in-metros.html#more-2377 BANKS RELUCTANT – BUILDERS RUNNING PILLAR TO POST – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/banking-and-finance/banks-reluctant-to-fund-real-estate-companies.html#more-2379 So its time to unitedly hang-on and not go for that 2% – 3% increase in Home Purchases – Please hang-on don’t spoil the show by purchasing it now.

  184. Hi! Pls tell me for how much would i get a 2bhk flat in pune? I mean how much EMI? And is it worth Taking on Loan and Paying Part of EMI by rent you get? Sonki

  185. Good lord. Lot has happened since I last checked. Magnificient idea about the HBA. Me in too. Have lots of ideas me have. Will discuss in the gathering. Keep it going guys.

  186. Arun, What is happning insted of real estate i m getting mail updates of IT companies and Banking, is it possible for u to block it nad i can get only real estate updates. Anyways guys what is happning with HBA, how many ppl are intrested and how many are going for meeting, it is my bad i can’t come as i m out of India, but i would like to know about it and join u all. and also from last few days u all are so quite

  187. I prety late in this discussion. Already everyone knows that the real estate sector struggling due to cash crunch. There is definetely going to be a price reduction atleast by 40% to 50% in about a quarter.

  188. Guys I agree with u all, I am also waiting for the fall till 60%, But all my other point is that we should not delay to form HBA, even after all the facts, we can’t ignore the posibilities, we can’t underestimate PABA These ppl have all kind of sources to make a fake picture in front of general house buyers, as a result of it where the sale of flats ware 0% in december 08, now it is like 2 to 3% so we neet to stop this too, if we keep the rate as low as 0% definetely prices can fall upto 60% to 80%, we need to make some efforts to bring that prices level to get the real flat at real price. We have to think from all the sides to get the correct picture so we can act on it effictively, Guys it is very simple, already the global economic slow down has put the opposit force to the high speed running train and the train has started pulling back, By forming ORG. Like HBA we can add some more opposit force to pull that train back as fast as we can. Coz this chance we are not going to get again. Remember that the train is still trying with it’s full force to break this slow down. Over all I mean to say the Let us not waste time and act effectively Kick these PBAP to there ground level and expose them to the real world ppl. Let ppl know that how these real eastate ppl blaff in reality, Let us make everybody understand that they should get real estate at the real price and when ever thay want.

  189. Many guys are loosing jobs. May be I will be one of them. No one will be ready to buy flats in pune even at cheaper rates. :(

  190. Rally Nice Thread to know, Is Real Estate Offering a Real Cost to Buy a Real Home ? from 2007 to till date .

  191. Hi Guys, don’t panic and spread the awareness. Don’t buy and also don’t let others buy. Then we will see how things don’t come down. Your panic is their gain. So be ware.

  192. Hi Dhreeraj, PLEASE REFER BELOW LINK BY INDUSTRY EXPERTS – http://business.rediff.com/money/2009/mar/16/personal-finance-buying-a-home-wait-for-mid-2009.htm OR if this link does not open just add ‘l’ to .htm and connect. BUILDERS WILL REDUCE DOWN TO 60% – 80% BY OR JUST AFTER JUNE-2009 AS I STATED IN MY PREVIOUS POST. LET US ALL STAND UNITED TO SEE THIS ELSE WE ALL WOULD SUFFER. ALL THIS GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE STORY IS OK BUT WILL NOT MATERIALIZE AS THEY TOO ARE WAITING FOR THE BEST BUY. RE-THINK ON IT, I HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN TO ROYAL PRIDE PURPLE GIVING THE STORY AND ASKING THEM TO REVISE RATES TO MATCH YEAR-2004 LEVELS AND UNLESS THEY DO NOT MATCH THE REQUIREMENT, PEOPLE OF PUNE WILL NOT TURN-ON. THEY REPLY I GOT IS – PLEASE GIVE A CALL BEFORE YOU REACH OUT SITE FOR DISCUSSIONS. THIS MEANS THEY ARE GETTING THE PINCH AND FORCED BY PBAP NOT TO REDUCE. ROYAL PARK-PRIDE AND PURPLE WILL SOON FALL IN LINE AND DESERT PBAP TO SURVIVE. YOU SHOULD ALSO REFER TO BELOW LINK – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Real-Estate/Realty-cos-scale-down-prices-by-40/articleshow/4273994.cms BUT EVEN AFTER CUTTING TO 40% SALES ARE NOT PICKING UP. THIS MEANS ALL INDIAN BUYERS ARE WAITING FOR THAT CLASSIC 60% – 80% RATE CUTS SUPPORTED BY YEAR-2004 INTEREST RATES AND ONLY THEN THERE IS POSSIBILITY OF PEOPLE GOING FOR A BUY. THIS HAS TO HAPPEN AND WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN AS ALL MAJOR REALTY COMPANIES ARE FACING THE BLUES FROM RBI – READ THIS LINK – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/banking-and-finance/rbi-examines-the-books-of-10-real-estate-companies.html THE HIDDEN WROT OF THESE COMPANIES WILL SOON UNFOLD. JUST IMAGINE WHY BIGGIES ARE GOING DOWN BY 50% AND NOT PBAP – THE REAL REASON THEY KNOW THE WROT WILL OPEN SOON AFTER Q-4 RESULTS AND THEY WILL NOT MAKE MONEY THEY WANTED LATER. SO GO FOR THE BUCK NOW. PLEASE LET US UNDERSTAND THE HIDDEN AGENDA – HIDDEN THINGS – THEN WE WILL GET THE REAL MEANING OUT OF IT. – JAGO HINDUSTAN JAGO – JAGO PUNE JAGO -

  193. Hi All, I agree with Mandar till some extend, as he said by sept 09 we’ll feel slow down, I think it is not going to happen like that, from last week I am observing the movements around the global slow down, The major economies are taking enough steps to resist the slow down, looking at the share markets there is lot of volatility but over all markets are doing fine most of the companies are going positive, last week markets ware 2% to 9% UP, this shows that the pricses for properties are not going to fall as much as we have pridicted like up to 50% as of pricses going now. but it may fall up to 20% to 35%, now looking at the trends in India, every year June-July-Aug are the low sale months, during these months rates are not increased much or even if they are increased builders offers some kind of discounts and all, on the other hand for the government employes, nothing much matters regarding the global slow down, they already got 6 Pay commision, BSNL has increased 30% pay, so now these people has got lot of money in there hands now and bank’s are also reducing the intrest rates and it’s easy to provide loan to government employees, now most of the government employees they beleave in collecting properties, so definately that is going to give some profits to builders so builders are also targeting these people, overall it says that builders are anyhow not going to bother to reduce the prices till our expectations, as they still have customers to buy there products like 1BHK flats that too on installments, this will keep on roling there money and they won’t go in loss, also they have lot of money to hold on. Due to elections we are not facing much effect of global slow down, and by the time like Aug-Sept, Global Share Markets will start doing well and the falling prices will stabalised so we can’t expect to feel much effect of global economic slow down, coz’ from sep-09 to nov-09 it will be stable and after that it’ll start recovering again. that would be some bad news again for property buyers. Guy’s in other words we do not have much time to form HBA, we should work more faster on this for effective performance, if we think that we can fight against these builders monopoly in the market, this and this is the right time to do it, if once the pricses become stable it will become more tough for us, we should keep force going on to lower the price of properties. Don’t let builders take a deep breath, if they are stabalised then they are ready to messup with us too. I hope everybody understands the importance of time.

  194. Friends, Forming HBA is a wonderful idea. I suggest – we should have a separate website of HBA. Hope, all legal proceedings are going well, unfortunately I can’t contribute much as I am based out of india but surely add value by spreading a word with as many people as possible. We need to be more careful in terms of disclosing our identities, because the guys we are protesting against are notorious and money powered and not to mention have tremendous political support. IF THE BUYERS REMAIN PATIENT FOR ANOTHER 1.5 YEARS, THINGS WILL AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE. YOU KNOW WHAT, IT’S ELECTION TIME. THIS IS THE ONLY REASON WHY WE DON’T FEEL THE REAL SLOW-DOWN, RULING GOVERNMENT ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE FEEL PEOPLE GOOD GOOD ONCE THE ELECTIONS ARE OVER, BY SEPTEMBER 09 WE SHOULD SEE CHANGE COMING SLOWLY. THE THINGS WILL BE UP-SIDE-DOWN BY MID 2010, NOT EARLY, BECAUSE BUILDER LOBBY HAS ENOUGH MONEY TO HOLD AS OF TODAY. WE NEED TO GIVE ENOUGH TIME TO BUILD ADEQUATE PRESSURE :) LET’S BE UNITED AND MAKE A BETTER WORLD FOR US UNITY IS STRENGTH KEEP POSTING GOOD AND POSITIVE INPUTS AND HAVE A HAVE A WONDERFUL “VASANTA” OUT THERE IN PUNE…. HAPPY GUDI-PADWA..!!!

  195. Bloody Hell with PBAP – Gera, Jain and all of the wrotten lots. No Cash In Hand and Blaming Government, PMC and other Civic Bodies.. WHERE THE HELL MONEY HAS GONE WHEN YOUR GREED LED TO RISE OF PROPERTY RATES BY MORE THAN 400% IN JUST 3 YEARS…… NOW WHEN YOU MUST REDUCE RATES AND IF YOU WON’T REDUCE PEOPLE OF PUNE WILL MAKE YOU REDUCE RATES BY 400% AND COME TO YEAR-2004 LEVEL. Guys don’t go by this shit. Builders have pocketed Heafty Margins by increasing property rates by 400%-500%. All this money is in their pocket and now they don’t want to shell it out. They want to show the world they are helpless, no cash in hand, threaten People of Pune by giving such statements like if Pune People don’t buy homes now at the rates they are ready to sell then People will not find one after few months as only 16,000 flats will be available. BULL SHIT WITH THESE BLOODY BUILDERS…… DON’T GO FOR A BUY…. They will come down on their knees with Rs.1100-1250 psf rates by June-2009 and these were the rates in YEAR-2004. Everything else in this world is back to the basics except PBAP and PUNE BUILDERS. This is purely systematic method of LOOTING, CHEATING, FORGERY CASE, SHRI 420 CASE against Builders, especially PBAP. STRICTLY DON’T GO FOR A BUY AT ALL, SAVE YOURSELF AND SAVE OTHERS. PLEASEEEEEEEE DON’TTTTT FALLLLL PREYYYYY TO THEIR TRICKSSSSSSSS.

  196. Dear all, I got this from one site, now PBAP wants to blame everything on Government and Bank intrest rates, which is not true at all they are just playing another game. At the end of this Jain said that price falling is not possible if there is a demand gap, Now is it really true, i think it’s just another game. Read the following. Severe cash crunch and falling sales have brought more than 450 real estate projects in Pune to a standstill. This has led to around 5,000 construction workers and many others losing jobs. By December 2009, only 16,000 new apartments would be unsold in Pune while the demand is more than 50,000. These numbers were revealed by a detailed survey undertaken by Promoters and Builders Association of Pune (PBAP), a body that represents a large number of real estate developers in Pune and surrounding regions. “Construction of cheaper flats is impossible for builders at a stage when there is severe credit crunch and the buying power of Pune residents has got stagnated due to higher home loan interest rates. This has formulated into a ‘deadlock’ which seems difficult to get resolved without active steps by the government of Maharashtra and Pune Municipal Corporation,” PBAP president and Kumar Builders chairman Lalitkumar Jain told Business Standard. A large number of real estate analysts have been projecting Pune as country’s top destination for real estate investment as the city has seen extensive growth in sectors of information technology, automobile, manufacturing, education and services. All this resulted into a sudden price hike across all locations in Pune and real estate properties saw an appreciation of more than 200 per cent within three years. However, the PBAP over the last four months has experienced a sudden fall in sales mainly due to higer interest rates. “We have come to a situation where we have asked all our members to sell flats at the lowest possible rates because banks are not keen on financing our new projects and unless our present flats are sold, we cannot start new projects,” Jain stated. Rohit Gera, another prominent developer from Pune said, the steps taken by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) have helped bring down interest rates but the state government and local municipal corporation are adamant over taking any new measures to facilitate real estate growth. Gera stated, around 450 real estate projects in Pune and surrounding localities were at a standstill since developers do not have cash in hand. “Since projects are held up, more than 5,000 workers have lost jobs and a number of engineers, architects and allied workforce too have received pink slips. And still, the government has continued the readreckoner rates while the stamp duty for land development has been increased from one per cent to five per cent,” he added. The PBAP also blamed PMC for severe increase in various premium and development charges, which the builders have no option but to pass on to the end buyer. “Our survey show that by December 2009, there would be only 16,000 ready-to-sell flats available in Pune while the demand is of more than 50,000 units. If the demand-supply gap continues, there are no chances of prices falling,” Jain added.

  197. Dont get cheated by schemes announced by builders this “GudhiPadwa”. They are sucking our blood. Dont buy homes, & see that your friends, relatives also do not buy. Let the builders beg. Show builders that we are united, and your dadagiri will not be tolerated any more.

  198. Most interesting thread. Thanks for the link from India housing bubble blog. What is cost of construction for big builders like DLF? Is it also around 900 psf? Or more? What about the green area and other open spaces from builders like DLF – how much should that contribute to price psf? The big daddy – land price, how much psf? I am specifically interested in Gurgaon prices. How is 3070 psf by a top tier builder (Vatika)(including underground parking and all except stamp duty) sound to you?

  199. Arun, It went unnoticed while updating my comments that the check box is on for informing the new posts on this blog at my e-mail ID. My mail box becomes full and unable to handle on regular basis. Please remove updation of posts to my mail ID. Appreciate a confirmation Thanks.

  200. Hi Guys, WAKE UP CALL AGAINNNNNNNNNN. SEE THIS LINK BELOW – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Real-Estate/Do-not-expect-property-rates-to-fall-further-Hiranandani/articleshow/4240975.cms ITS A CLEAR CASE OF USING MUSCLE POWER TO MANIPULATE MARKETS, MANIPULATE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY BY GIVING GUIDING STATEMENTS AT HIGH PROFILE MEETINGS. HIRANANDANI NO DOUBT HAS SUFFICIENT POWER TO USE ITS STANDING TO MANIPULATE MARKET BY GIVING STATEMENTS SUCH AS – ” DO NOT EXPECT PROPERTY PRICES TO FALL” THIS SIGNALS LARGE SO CALLED CORPORATE BUILDERS TO FORM A CARTEL AND NOT TO REDUCE PRICES, HAVE A RIDE ON GOVERNMENT INTEREST RATE CUTS, MANIPULATE MARKETS BY GIVING HOAX SCHEMES TO BUYERS SUCH AS FREE CAR, REDUCING PRICES BY MEAGER 10-15%, GIVING FREE GIFTS OR SOME WHITE WASH REDUCTION IN STAMP DUTY-REGISTRATION CHARGES ETC…. COME ON – NO WAY ITS GOING TO PLAY WITH PEOPLE OF PUNE…… PROPERTY PRICES MUST COME DOWN TO REALISTIC – “” YEAR-2004 LEVELS “” WITHOUT WHICH PEOPLE / ALL BUYERS WILL END UP PAYING HIGHHHHHHHH EMI FOR THEIR 50% OF PROFESSIONAL LIFE SACRIFICING THEIR FAMILY’S NEEDS AND REQUIREMENTS AND LUXURY…….. ITS OUR HARD EARNED MONEY AND NOT THEIRS – GET IT STRAIGHT PBAP, OTHER LARGE BUILDERS SUCH AS HIRANANDANI ETC…… LETS GIVE SUCH STUNTS A BLUNT – STRAIGHT ON FACE – REPLY -

  201. Makarand, I would suggest that let us not distract interested people or I would rather term this folk as beneficiaries of such a association by giving them 2 separate contact points such as one floated by Arun i.e. admin@trak.in and the other floated by you hbapune@in.com. I mean once HBA takes shape we can use this mail ID as an identity of it but for the time being it is easy for all to use this blog thread and it is advantagous to all to maintain the year long developments and capture the true picture. As suggested by Arun, we can always maintain this blog thread for all HBA Annoucements, interaction on daily basis so that new readers will get the true picture and they understand the value proposition of this blog, its participants and finally HBA. What u say????

  202. To, All friends, Please give the information about a temple in your neighbourhood area,where at least 50 people can accomadate.This will help us to conduct our first meeting.We will get more choice of locations and decide the ideal one for all suitably.If you have any suggestions and ideas,please mail at: hbapune@in.com

  203. Arun Prabhudesai

    Prakash, Dheeraj, Makarand and (4-5 other members who have already sent me a mail to be a part of this HBA ) – Thank you for your enthusiastic response….I agree with Prakash, Gudi Padwa…although a auspicious day may not be a good choice to hold a meeting. I am proposing 27th March evening between (6:30pm to 7:30pm) as the scheduled time for the meeting. We can meet up at a cafe or a restaurant if the crowd is single digits…if more we will have to make alternative arrangements…I request all of you to mail me directly (admin-at-trak.in) for any further communication on HBA…We will use this thread only for announcements so that this does not get very long… Jayesh, I am happy that you found this thread helpful..

  204. To, ALL, Please share your thoughts and ideas on hbapune@in.com

  205. Arun, it is really a excellent idea to stand against these builders and help everybody, i already sent you mail, but i can’t come to pune right now as i am out of India, there must be several more ppl like me who are intrested to join HBA, for now we can just communicate via email, but it will also be a good idea if we can have all of our group contact No’s. or some contact point no’s.

  206. I have been reading this thread for long time and it had really helped me for not making a biggest mistake in my life. One day I went to see flat around Dec 2007, I saw the flat it really attracted me with the amenities provided by the builder. Builder quoted me 3300 psf and total went to 48lk-51lk, I had 1 lk with me and on the next day I was about to make payment. I was thinking that flat is too costly but at that time people were rushing to buy flat at what ever the price builder quoted that made me panic and I felt that after few month if you buy the figure will go to 60-65 lk, on the same night I came across this thread as if God had sent this thread to save my hard earned money. Now this thread is really taking a shape by forming Home Buyers Association. I am looking forward to Join this Association and all the best to all the People who are reading this thread and to all who had given their analysis, Ideas, Views etc. Jayesh Shah 9421002345

  207. Dear Mr.Prakash, I appreciate your serious interest.If people like you come together,it will take very short time to achive our goal.As per your suggestion we difinately form the HBA in legal way and register the same.

  208. Hi Makarand and Arun, Its a good counter strategy to form a House Buyers Association. I would suggest a slight change. Gudi Padwa no doubt is a auspicious day for the occassion however it is reality that few will turn up for obvious reasons. Its better we schedule such a meeting on Saturday evening 28th March after office hrs say 6.30pm or 7.00pm or same timing on Sunday 29th March. We meet for an hr or so to put up a formal structure to this entity HBA. Unless HBA is registered it will not capture legal, valid response from Media, Authorities and even PBAP. Especially PBAP may try to use muscle power to give negative publicity about HBA illlegal existance etc…. I mean, if we are thinking of HBA we need to look in to all aspects and form a proper structured entity. Friends, colleagues, peers will try to join in after the first meeting I think so…. Arun, it is possible for you to convey to all a suitable meeting place and would appreciate if my suggestions on day & time are considered. This will be easy for all as most of them would belong to salaried class and obvious office work constraints. Do post us all…. Prakash

  209. Respected blog Friends, The builders in PUNE have come together and formed their association PBAP for earning unlimited money in short period of time. Through this association they are harrassing the middle class & needy people in PUNE for the sake of greed. So to fight against this financial terrorists & to stop them at the right time, formation of House Buyers Association is need of the present hour. Through this association we all try to get & provide ourselves the dreamhouse at affordable price. So if you find this worth you can contribute your thoughts and join us.. We will meet on 27th March 2009,Gudhi Padwa the auspicious day in Pune.The venue will be decided shortly.So request to spread this message in community and come with friends & family.

  210. Hi Makrand, Excellent!! we can start work from HBA .. I already sent mail to admin :)

  211. Arun Prabhudesai

    To all, Makarand has given an excellent suggestion. We should seriously form an HBA in Pune….and what better place to start than here….I request all of you to let me know who is interested in meeting up offline…. Please mail me at admin@trak.in with subject line “HBA meeting” …If I get enough responses we can get together at designated location over the weekend…I can definitely provide coverage in mainstream media if we have good number of people… So guys lets get together offline now :)

  212. Dear Mr.Arun, Please arrange at least one get together meeting in Pune as soon as possible.So that we can start our association.

  213. we all need to form housing buyers association.(HBA)

  214. Hey Darshit, you are absolutely right. I have writtten multiple times before that a property gets sold for a price WHAT OTHERS ARE READY TO PAY. The problem primarily happened because of NRI folks who put in money at absurd prices for investment sake and by pushy spouses, family members, peers who caused quite a sane lot to make a bad decision of buying at absurd rates. Earlier the prices started rising with builders putting in better construction and little extras like more open space, etc etc. Later it was all whitewashing. Magarpattta – Although a very nice concept – has the worst construction quality. Inflation got the builders increase prices by 10 times the inflation. Then when everyone agrees across the globe that property rates hasve been inflated and will come down to the previous 5 year figure, this infamous PBAP cartel talks crap. I mean how can the chairman or whatever fancy position my LKJ has talk crap like prices in Pune are Rock Bottom! The lone statement itself summarizes this cartel’s thinking. Pune folks are morons. Just fool them and they will fall in the trap. It’s pathetic and things and statements like this only tend to sentiment of the public. Confidence in real estate is in shambles in this city. Its now like buying stuff from Fashion street or Palika Bazar in Delhi. No matter how much you bargain, at the end if you buy it, you would always feel cheated. Hard to see value at any rates now. Why? because again PBAP cartel is saying if we reduce prices quality will suffer. This is just a stunt as the quality is always shit, but what impact do open statements like these have on a buyer. Immediately I see that a rate of 1500psf is not a deal but may be crap construction that would have the building collapse in coming monsoon rains (Check out previous comments where people equate lost cost = crap construction). It is shit everywhere in Pune, and this time (after crash) it is solely PBAP to blame. May be if PBAP acted smartly, we could have seen some bounce after 30-40% correction but definitely not now. Its a free fall as you rightly said.

  215. Darshit wrote, I am reading this article for quite some time and believe me , i had some knowledge that real estate is in shambles but was not ready to believe in it as all my eggs were invested in it. but nevertheless , i have a few observations as well. I am an wrkg professional as most of you all and reading through this blog has given and shown some great thoughts , anticipation and anger on PBAP. as many of us suggest that market needs a major correction till 2005 level. and we purely blame PBAP for this…. are we sure that they are the only culprits here , some how dont we feel that we ourselves contributed to this bully in a major way as well and many of us fellow pros are also suffering buig time and believe me the # is huge. 1)Pune Land of Migrants / growing working class always increasing demand for property and hence ??? 2)we forgot the basic necessity to understand the local Real estate history of Pune , its working / business class ratio and people residing here. 3)We started to buy properties left right and center and i have visited many sales offices in Pune on launch / auspicious days and have seen properties being sold similar to a fish market on a sunday , ?? if you dont pay then and there , that property is sold to someone else …. so who fuelled the greed and here also i am talking abt 2006 / 2007 & the prices were high. but that time IT market was booming and all we thought of 20-30 % increment , anticipating real estate growth in future as well and were proud to make such good investment. if any thought would have given to real estate history and past of pune , this could have been avoided but no , since we saw only positives , (increment and investment) , we went ahead and believe me it was still not affordable but managable .. and now since last year , economic downturn , no increments , job loss , stock market crash , and every other means of investment crashed then how real estate could be left behind. i feel that even if everything above was +ve , our community would continue to invest in real estate even at this high stupid prices? ( people started cribbing only when it started to go beyond their buying capability , if people would have thought about the property actual worth – local market and not buying capability , ths scenario would have never arised.) I still dont understand how come so many people failed to understand what high prices are , did they never fear the impact?? If not why cry now? any place which would be one dimensional faces high risk and same has happened to pune since all it has is working professionals. apart from PBAP , who cares anyways … people who bought before 2005 – safe … people not buying safe , they can enter but a large chunk of similar professionals have bought in 2006 / 2007 — people @ exorbitant prices… and this is the community similar to myself i fear for , and i seriously dont see PBAP solely responsible bcoz we acted real crazy and paying the price big time. we in turn increased the greed for PBAP and hence this result. 1) Greed would then fuel for higher price land auctions.. 2) Ambitious projects launches by Builders have we ever thought because of our actions , (I am talking here of migrants settled in pune) would have killed the native puneite fundamentals and its buying capacity. they never saw the rates even of 2500 for their centre city and here we are talking about 7 / 8 something …. greedy we all were and all paying the price for defying economics , and there is a large sum of professionals with home – 2006 / 2007… Hopefully just for everyone else sake , it doesnt get too bad… I am from Mumbai and have visited pune just couple of times and both related to property , in mumbai we have a fall too but thats global recession and there is no buyer to buy bcoz of -ve sentiments , but prices are 15%(most) – 25%(vfew) down , not more as of now but since this is not one dimensional city depending on a single type of work force transactions happen but pune with prices initially jacking up and now crumbling , i have nothing else but fear. I just wanted to write this because i felt that prices have to correct but correction is good but this is not correction , it is a free fall and if this continues it will impact all recent buyers, & similar to housing bubble in US , and most buyers will soon be underwater , i.e. their outstanding loan amount would be more than the actual cost of the flat and this is not good signs. Ranjeet (any one else), you have been very articulate and were the first person to say that we might see a real estate crash (2007), what is in store ahead and is it going to continue like this – free fall. Let me know.. please reply and share your thoughts … Thanks Darshit

  216. Thanks Arun for the stats and Yeah it is very important to for all people who want to pick-n-post comments to give a LINK BANK to this page else there is every possibility of readers getting biased views or getting distracted from the main course. The real picture of Pune Property is here on this blog-page.

  217. Arun Prabhudesai

    Okay…Here are the stats this post has got more than 28500 pageviews till now and around 275 comments. Also, if anybody wishes to pick up certain comments from this post, they are free to do so (please ensure that it is not significant portion, picking up 5-10 comments is okay ). However, you have to ensure that you need to give a linkback to this page, so that everyone knows about it…

  218. For popularity, we can always get the stats from Arun. Arun, please post. BTW I second Prakash’s point that no one is even going for bookings at sub 200 rates because as we say – the sentiment is not good. We, the people of Pune feel cheated by this PBAP cartel. So all of the sound minded folks now are staying away from properties. On top of this rentals are crashing so there is absolutely no need to buy. Go for multiple year contracts and if possible directly with landlords. Avoid the middleman.

  219. Friend, at many places brokers are jobless… :) they are not getting customers for rent. in my appartment many flats are empty. Baner… kiran more

  220. How is this post too popular?

  221. Guys, AT 14:08 IST 5th Mar: SHARES IN UNITECH SLIP 5.2 PCT TO 25.4 RUPEES JANUARY OIL DATA PROVES IT – ITS DOWN 8.1% Y/Y RELIANCE SHARES SLIP TO 5% AND OIL & GAS INDEX DOWN 3.5% WAKE-UP PBAP NO ONE’S GONNA THROUGH PIECES AT YOU IF YOU STICK AT SUCH HIGH RATES

  222. I WROTE THIS ON 27th FEB, I CHECKED IT AGAIN – THIS GUY PUNE PROPERTIES HAS STILL NOT REVISED RATES AND MAINTAINING HIGHHHHHHHHH RATESSSSSSSSS OF JAN-2008 ====== WE SHOULD BOMBARD HIMMMMMMMMMMM AND MAKE HIM REVISED RATES== JUST CHECK BELOW LINK YOU WILL REALIZE – http://www.puneproperties.com/real-estate-price-updates.php YOU ALL SHOULD CALL THIS GUY & JUST THRASH HIM TO REVISE RATES ON HIS PORTAL (I HAVE ALREADY THRASHED HIM TWICE IN LAST 2 MONTHS) – PRITESH KAYAL +91-9860882558 E-mail: info@puneproperties.com

  223. Hi all, Have a look at this link – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/bangalore/dlf-to-cut-apartments-rates-in-chennai-and-bangalore.html#more-2332 DLF SLASHED PSF RATES FROM WHOOPING RS.4000 TO RS.1850 IN BANGALORE AND CHENNAI i.e. 46.25% REDUCTION AND YET DLF IS NOT GETTING BUSINESS MEAGER BOOKING AMOUNTS PAID….. BUYERS ARE WAITING FOR YEAR-2004 LEVEL PRICING AND LET US NOT GET DISTRACTED FROM THIS. RS.1800 PSD ARE ALSO TOOOOOOOO HIGHHHHHHH RATESSSSSSS…….. IT SHOULD COME DOWNNNNNNNNNNN TO RS.1150-1200 PSD RATES THAT EXISTED IN YEAR-2004 By JUNE even Interest Rates will come down to 8% FIXED instead of current rates of 8% for 1st Year and thereafter 9.25% till 5th Year and thereafter as per the prevailing market rates etc…. etc….. COME ON !!!!!!!!! PBAP STOP THIS BULL SHIT ATTITUDE…… COME TO TERMS NOW……. ELSE PEOPLE OF PUNE WILL WAKE YOU UP AND THEN NEVER ALLOW YOU TO SLEEP PEACEFULLY….. LET US NOT MAKE ANY BUYING DECISION EVEN AT REDUCED RATES….COZ THESE ARE STILL ABOVE MARKET DRIVEN RATES…… NO WAY PUNE PEOPLE WILL BUY PROPERTY NOW I AM SURE AND ALL WILL CO-OPERATE…. ========= FREE GIFTS FROM BUILDERS PBAP ======= HA HA HA HA ==== NO ONE GOING FOR IT….. Check link below – http://www.indianrealtynews.com/real-estate-india/delhi/free-gifts-fail-to-lure-home-buyers.html THERE’S LOW RESPONSE FOR BANK GIMMICKS OF LOW INTEREST RATES – THEY ARE TRYING TO PLAY WITH US, OUR HARD EARNED MONEY FOR 20 YEARS OF OUR RIGHTFUL LIVING – ANSWER IS NOOOOOOOOO WAYYYYYYYYYY WE WILL FALL PRAY TO YOU……. Check this link – http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/low-response-to-home-loan-scheme/02/28/350517/ WE DID NOT SEE ANY RESPONSE FROM — THE BLOG OWNER “ARUN” NOR HAVE WE SEEN ANY RESPONSE / ARTICLE ON (http://indiahousingbubble.blogpspot.com) SHRINIWAS KULKARNI’s GOOGLE BLOG…….. IT IS BETTER AND IN THE INTEREST OF ALL PEOPLE THAT SUCH PROPAGATION TAKES PLACE……. PLEASE ATTEND TO THIS QUERY. KOTHRUD ONCE QUOTING RS.6500 PSF IS NOW DOWN TO RS.4500-5000 PSF STILL VERYYYYYYYYYYY HIGHHHHHHHHHHH THEY MUST COME DOWN TO YEAR-2004 LEVELS OF RS.1200-1400 PSF. TILL THEN AVIODDDDDDD BUYINGGGGG COME APRIL-MAY AND Q-4 RESULTS OF ALL WILL SPELL OUT THE TRUTH. ======== PBAP AND OTHER BUILDERS BLOODYYYYYYY DON’T WANT TO LOWER THEIR RATES TO YEAR-2004 LEVEL AND TRYING TO HAVE A RIDE ON LOWER BANK INTEREST RATESSSSSSSSS THINKING PEOPLE OF PUNE ARE FOOLS ==== ====== GUYS JUST IMAGINE, EVEN IF INTEREST RATES COME DOWN, BUILDERS NOT LOWERING THEIR PSF RATES AND WOULD SAY WE HAVE REDUCED BY 15-20%, OUR EMI IS STILLLLLLLLL GOING TO BE HIGHHHHHH AT WHOOPINGGGGGGG RS.20,000=00 PER MONTH FOR 20 YEARSSSSSSSSS ======== ============= THIS WILL NOT WORK AT ALL ================= Prakash

  224. PBAP needs to look into this: http://www.allcheckdeals.com/project-dlf-newtown-btmextension-bangalore.php You want to know what their response will be? Can;t provide ameneties, construction quality will suffer, they are not using gold bars for extra strength :) as we do. Ha ha ha. Wake up PBAP. There is a huge round of cancellations going in various cities where prices were bloated. Pune seems to top the chart in terms of price bloat. Folks who have already booked should get your bookings cancelled. There is to be a 50%+ drop in present rates. DLF has already shown us that. 1850 = 3700/2

  225. Stay updated on the happenings: http://twitter.com/pune_property Facts published here, self findings and news items will be mirrored on this tweet. Hey Arun, woh Shrini ko permission do bhai.

  226. Our discussion should be notice by maximum peoples.It doesn’t mean only some people know and discuss the facts.So find out the way that how we can reach this messages in Pune city.

  227. I agree with u all that we can ask our friends to visit this link and they can also join us here so we can also get some more views which will be more easy to share between us all and everybody can take benifit from it, after all it’s all our hard earned money we got to take care and help our friends too. We all know in all this cases of property hikes, our government has failed to keep it in control, which has resulted in todays condition, common man can’t even think to afford or to buy a house in good locality or nearby the city, it has also created the haterate feelings in them for IT and BPO industry, where as we know most of the employes in these industries are from middleclass, The Economic crises has arrived at the right time which would change peoples mind and make them think twice in the different way and also some can really have a chance to get there dream house at affordable price. By spreading out our views and gathering more people with us here can really bring revolution which will favour to us and other who want’s to buy house, it will help people to open there eye’s and show them the true picture what is happning around us, how these builders are playing with the society, these builders ware playing game like we have to work for them for rest of 20 years if we buy house/flat from them. i.e. in most cases those who take loan from banks, if we buy a good flat /house we have to take loan from bank, now bank gives that money to builders, then rest of the 20 years we have to pay to bank the double the amount (with intrest) then the bank has paid to builder. now what u say all this is? for me it seems all CRAP and a game that is being played by builders and bankers to take out all the money from ur pocket. think in the different way that builders and bankers are 50-50% partners and the condition is that u have to pay back in 20 years but u get the stuff only worth half of the amount that u pay at the end of the 20 years and there is no guarantee of the things what u get from them that too the property may not be owned by u. now it sounds like that it’s a joke. but that is happning. If more people join us they can atleast give a second thought…. no matter who they are, and we’ll be able to do that in which our Government has failed.

  228. Shriniwas Kulkarni

    Great Work Arun !! I have been following this thread for quite some time. This is a classic case of the bubble being built and then beginning to go bust and people’s reaction to it! I write at the indiahousingbubble blog (http://indiahousingbubble.blogpspot.com). I will begin posting all your concerns on that blog which will mirror your discussions … Please note that blogger will scan these comments as Google owns Blogger. So if Arun Agrees, I will being quoting comments from here on to indiahousingbubble. For starters read that blog too – it has more than 140 articles written over the last few years …

  229. Hi Arun, The very fact that our discussions attracted attention of the owner of this blog gives a BOOST to all of us. Thanks a lot for assuring continuity of this blog to the People of Pune. I mean its your way of participation in our efforts to bring awareness among peers. Thanks again for assuring to maintain valuable information, quotes, comments, suggestions LIVE on this blog. This will GO A LONG WAY…. However, to benefit people at large is there a way wherein you can advertise this particular link on various property sites or property related sites or search engine results or any other way you feel suitable for internet marketing. Once this happens, people will contribute in a more constructive manner with qualitative inputs. Also, we the People of Pune can plan to forward this link to leading News Papers urging them to print EXCERPTS of discussions latest to date. Please suggest if you too can help us by your MEDIA Contacts if any. I mean WORTH it. By doing so there will be a REALITY CHECK on REALTY and BUILD PRESSURE ON BUILDERS. What say Guys???? Come on lets thank Arun once again for his whole hearted support to all of us and for the honest cause. Prakash.

  230. Arun Prabhudesai

    Hi All, I am the owner of this blog…and I sincerely thank all of you for creating such a healthy discussion around Pune real estate scenario. I agree completely that this is such valuable information. I suggest forward this link to all your friends…The good part is that this post+comments give a nice chronological change of scenario in Pune real Estate market since 2007 when the post was first published. I thank many of the regular commenter like PM, Prakash, Dhiraj and many more who have kept the discussion alive.. Well done guys…this link will stay forever and it will be a nice way to track everything going around…

  231. Yeah Kiran, it makes lot of sense in creating awareness of this link to all people we know….. this is really a SUPERB IDEA. All discussions, links, information that has been already shared by many will be easily accessible to all and we will get to know more people and have interaction with them on this page itself. BRAVO!!!! Prakash

  232. Hi! Kiran, This link should be preserved because it contains valuable information. We need to publicize this more. Moreover there should be a structured way to have all this information like true property rates and trends, etc. How do we do this? A casual search does not list out this thread and so many people miss it out.

  233. yes, we should start group on Orkut.

  234. Dear Friends, The discussions happening here in this chain are enough for others to know the reality about PBAP and Real Estate in Pune. Instead of creating any new group lets forward the link of this chain to everyone. That will keep our old discussions safe and in addition we will have new friends to keep us posted/updated. What u people say? Kiran More

  235. Agree with you Prakash/David. We do need a forum/website where we can spread the facts to all Puneites. Why not start groups in Orkut and Facebook, etc. about this and spread the facts and expose tactics of this PBAP terrorist organization. What say other members of this thread?

  236. Hey Guys read this article I came across just now it says GDP will be below 5% for Q-4 : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Economy/Growth-will-be-below-5-pc-in-first-half/articleshow/4200110.cms

  237. Thanks PM for reciprocating. I feel you are in-sync with reality of realty. We need thousands like to or at the least spread this awareness among peers. Thanks Ashwin for reinstating the facts. Pune Builders are still trying to SQUEEZE People of Pune by demanding 2700 – 3000 psf rates. Ideally, it should be 1100 – 1300 psf range in Pimple Saudagar, Pimple Nilak, Rahatni, Wakad etc… far off areas. So what if these are near to IT Parks, it doesn’t mean one should LOOT. Rs.1100-1300 psf were the rates early 2004-year. Many of my friends booked during that period. Aundh had 1650-1750 psf rates in year-2005 then WHY 5000-6000 psf now???? TOTALLY ABSURD. For god’s sake we should be proactive in propagating this thought process of “”AVOID BUYING”” and exactly do what Ashwin did, I mean taking Surveys either by Personal Visits or Telephone Calls. Refuse on their face and Builders will come to terms. PARKING – MSEB – another devil LEGAL CHARGES (what’s the hell in it, but they are charging as high as 35K????) – all such gimmicks should be attacked simultaneously. WE THE PEOPLE OF PUNE HAVE ABSOLUTE RIGHT FOR A DECENT LIFE AND WE HAVE TO DEMAND IT, CREATE IT BY NOT LETTING THESE DOGGY BUILDERS THRIEVE ON OUR HARD EARNINGS. Rates have to be in the range of 1100 – 1300 psf in far off places and 1400-1600 psf in areas like Kothrud till then JUST MAINTAIN PRESSURE. Q-4 WILL OPEN THE PANDORA’S BOX. Company Balance Sheets will be full of debts, NPA’s and unable to maintain margin calls. GDP for DEC’08 QTR. declared today speaks volumes, its meager 5.3% against much touted 7% Growth Rate. It will fall to almost 4.1 – 4.4% range for Year Ending March-2009. Just wait and watch. All Leading IT Companies are scaling down, biggies like Infy have declared seizure on Variable Pay Component of salary and nominal salary hike this April. Auto Sector is in mess already. General Engineering Industry output is on fall and would be worse by Q-4 and Q-1 next Fiscal. Then WHAT THE HELL BUILDERS ARE WAITING TO CASH ON….. ITS GREED AND NOTHING ELSE. REMEMBER – ONCE THE RATES CRASH – WE ALL HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY RESIST EVEN A RS.25 – 50 HIKE AS THESE DOGGIES WILL SAY MARKETS REVIVING AND IN THE NAME OF MARKET REVIVAL THEY WILL START INCREASING PRICES SLOWLY IN STEPS OF RS.25 – 50 EVERY MONTH OR TWO. <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> <> >> Just Imagine – To what extent PBAP has manupulated Pune Markets a preview – >> NOT A SINGLE NEWS PAPER IS ALLOWED TO PUBLISH WORDS LIKE PROPERTY PRICES SLOWING DOWN, FALLING RATES, BUILDERS STRUGGLIG ARTICLES – whether its SAKAL, TOI, INDIAN EXPRESS, DNA or any other. >> Even property based portals that publish indicative prices based on surveys conducted at an regular interval of 4 months are not publishing or REVISING RATES. WHEN I CONTACTED FEW OF THEM AND DEMANDED REVISION IN RATES THEY ARE COOL TO ANSWER THAT PRICES HAVE NOT CORRECTED & REDUCTIONS ARE RUMORS. ==== TO HELL WITH THESE PORTALS ==== JUST CHECK BELOW LINK YOU WILL REALIZE – http://www.puneproperties.com/real-estate-price-updates.php YOU ALL SHOULD CALL THIS GUY & JUST THRASH HIM TO REVISE RATES ON HIS PORTAL (I HAVE ALREADY THRASHED HIM TWICE IN LAST 2 MONTHS) – PRITESH KAYAL +91-9860882558 E-mail: info@puneproperties.com PBAP is playing a big game with all of us. They have networked with every possible link where the news of downfall can leak officially in Pune. Mumbai New Papers are publishing it left-right-center, Delhi-NCR News are flowing easily, South News too are quite satisfactory but HAVE YOU HEARD ANY SPECIFIC DOWNSIZING, RATE CUTS NEWS FROM PUNE ???????? JUST IMAGINE WHAT’S HAPPENING AROUND. WE MUST BREAK THIS NEXUS – RATHER DESTROY IT. Regards, Prakash.

  238. Why we should give our hard earn money to these greedy builders. Who knows only to suck customers by charging hingh amount for anything they build like parking, mseb etc. Pune builders are creep!

  239. Do you know guys there is terriorists in Pune. Very danger. Terriorists which is coming behind the LOC is nothing than Internal terriorists.Because external terriorists shut you in 1 bullet But internal terriorists will suck you for long years. Do you know who is real terriorists ???? These are pune builders PBA . They suck you for 20 years by selling the flats in Very high rates. No one can save you,no politician, no Government no one. Thers is one person who save you and thats “you”.yes, ourself by not purchasing flats in Very high rates. If you purchase the flat then you will “FLAT” for 20 years. Now its your turn…

  240. Guys, forget buying a flat all together! If a company like TCS can announce layoffs, then guess what firangi companies like IBM, Accenture, EDS (HP), AMDOCS, etc will do! Check this out. Fresh evening news: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/No-salary-hike-job-cuts-possible-TCS/articleshow/4195710.cms Is anyone scared over here with this news or you feel confident that your company will still pay you obscene amounts for managing a team of 10 people or writing code that a 10th grader can? If x then y else z :) Really, what is so special about us IT guys or for the sake MBAs these days that commands a premium? Along similar lines … coming back to property discussion … what is so special about Pune properties :)

  241. Jai Ho Prakash ji. You so very well re-verberate my thoughts. Parking should be kind of a polythene bag that shopkeepers give when you buy stuff from them. Imagine shopkeepers charging for one :) In fact Pune builders did and people paid for it and here we are. Parking from10K to 2 lakhs. What is there in a parking! It is empty space folks. You know what. In my building the builder has marked every possible space as a parking slot. Left right you have those rectangular dabbas marked with flat numbers. No space to decently walk even :( And shamelessly he has put a board outside the society that says – Visitor’s parking! Who the hell is he to mark municipality land as visitor’s parking! I say this because there is no road outside our society :) where rates are ‘quoted’ at 2800 psf. It sold for 900 psf earlier but now people feel good that their property is valued at 2800 psf :) Its 4 years old and no road yet! When the society chaps asked the builder to put a road, he blankly refused saying it is PMCs job! Go to PMC you suckers. Ha ha ha. Chalo chhodo. The only ‘sukh’ we would get is when we see these builders sitting outside their own societies with a katora. Let us all keep fast and pray for this to happen soon :) All say – Amen or Jai Ho :)

  242. Guys, This weekend I went around Pimple Saudagar area to gauge the prevailing rates.To my surprise they are still quoting 2700-3000. Roseland Residency 3BHK ready possession 3000,came down to 2800 :( Dint liked Wadhwani’s project so dint enquired much. Also saw a couple of resale row houses in Shubh Shree woods @ 2700 psf. Man! who says Pune’s realty is going downside,these sky high prices atleast do not suggest anything. Anybody who has purchsed a flat in same area pls enlighten about the rates. 3000 psf for this bullshit !!!

  243. FURTHER, I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC WHY PEOPLE PAY HEFTY Rs.1.5L – 2Lacs for PARKING. PLEASE DON’T AGREE TO PAY SUCH RATES I MEAN DAMN HALF THE PRICE OF A CAR FOR PARKING…. ITS WORTH BUYING A NANO INSTEAD LAUNCHING MARCH 23rd 2009 AND AVAILABLE BY APRIL-MAY. DON’T EVEN ACCEPT RATES AS HIGH AS Rs.80K FOR MSEB, I MEAN JUST REFUSE AND NEGOTIATE A LOT ON THESE RATE I AM SURE BUILDERS WILL FIND IT HARD TO SELL AND COME DOWN TO NOMINAL Rs.10K – 20K AMOUNTS WHICH IS FAIR PRICING. ======= BASICS OF ALL **** ALL PRICING STRUCTURES SHOULD FALL TO YEAR-2004 LEVELS **** JUST REFUSE TO ACCEPT ANYTHING ABOVE THAT LEVELS ======= Regards, Prakash

  244. I have read the blog from early 2007 onwards. I would like to appreaciate few guys who really have a foresight and feel sorry for others who lacked it and above all questioned the foresight with negative sentiment. It’s a shear loss for you and no one else. Hope, time has told you this answer by now. It all started with a bull run of 2004-2005, GDP growing, Realty Prices inflated to by 400-500%, Inflation up 12-13%, Domestic products expensive by nearly 40-50%, Oil touched $127 & beyond etc… etc… Simple answer to all market gimicks is – If everything else is falling to 2004-2005 levels where it all started then WHY THE HELL PROPERTY PRICES Sticking up HIGH. USA where it all started has come to terms and is at 2000 level infact, but PUNE Builders still at 2006 levels…. NOT ACCEPTABLE. It GREED of Pune Builders coupled with lack of common sense with our people. We the people of Pune are to blame equally. We take pride in telling our friends-relatives to have booked a house at 50L-60L-75L etc…. At least now, OPEN YOUR EYES, if you are unable to analyze at the least listen to people who are capable of analyzing the market conditions. Its simple you will benefit and benefit people at large by NOT TAKING A DECISION TO GO FOR PROPERTY AT THIS MOMENT. If you fall prey to the gimmicks of Builders, Banks, Government the GOD HELP YOU, no one else. AVIOD MAKING DECISION !!!! Let Builders burn all the FAT they gathered during the bull run, they will come to terms in next 4-6 months and WE THE PEOPLE OF PUNE WILL GET 2004 PRICE LEVELS EASILY. ALL ARE BENEFITED since 80-90% of them are salaried professionals and it makes SENSE to avoid paying a heafty EMI for 20 years (half of your professional life almost). Instead you can utilize these savings to give your Children, Wife, Parents a decent life & security. At Bibwewadi February 2004 Prices were just Rs.750 psf, February 2006 it was still Rs.1150 psf for a decent 2 BHK & 3 BHK apartment with all necessary amenities however February 2007 it shot up to Rs.2800 psf and December 2008 it was quoted Rs.3500 psf. Just imagine people who were still buying were HELPING DEVILS SQUEEZE them down the bottom and making life of entire Pune people miserable. STOP BUYING, DO BLANK ENQUIRIES, ASK FOR RATES, SAY VERY HIGH, ASK FOR YEAR-2004 RATES AND THRASH THE PHONE…. DO IT FOR ANOTHER 3 MONTHS AND SEE FOR YOURSELF PRICES COMING DOWN TO BY 60% NEARLY TO BENEFIT ALL. REMEMBER BANK INTEREST RATES WILL ALSO COME DOWN TO YEAR-2004 LEVELS BY MARCH-2009. THEN WHY NOT PROPERTY RATES???? LOGICAL. To support this, you have downsizing in IT Industry, Job insecurity, Industrial growth slowed down, Elections and New Governments Budget may come up by End-May or Mid-June, Stock Market would be trading BELOW 7000 MARK (5500-7000 range BSE) REMEMBER WHAT USA IS DOING TODAY BY PUMPING BILLIONS OF AID MONEY IN TO THE SYSTEM, THIS OVER DOING WILL PULL USA INTO POOR ECONOMIC STABILITY ZONE AND INDIA-CHINA WILL GAIN FROM SHIFT OF MONEY POWER BY 2010-11 HELP YOURSELF, HELP PEOPLE OF PUNE ==== DON’T BUY PROPERTY TILL AT LEAST SEPT-OCT 2009 Regards, Prakash

  245. Check this on carpet area and saleable area: http://www.parkinfinia.co.in/prices.html These guys are now publishing carpet area but still charging for saleable area. It’s heartening to know that one pays for 1100 psf thinking this is that area he or she gets to live in while it is a mere 850 square feet!

  246. Hey Dheeraj, Completely agree with you. I too don’t like flats. Bungalows are great. My well wishers in the past suggested me to buy land and get a house built on that. Believe me it would turn out to be cheaper. Construction cost is not that high. It should be around 600psf to 700 psf today for quality construction. The only challenge to stay in an independent house in cities like Pune is security. Unless you can afford personal security to your future bungalow, it would be a bit risky. Another problem comes dealing with the corporations if you face issues with electricity/water, etc. In a society its kind of a bunch of people and things tend to get settled sooner. With a bungalow you are all alone. You need to have contacts (other than money) to enjoy this luxury.

  247. Hello David, from all that I have observed while in Pune – Seeing 1500 psf jump to 3000psf in no time, its damn sure that there is something wrong. Giving my personal example, I hardly got a 10% rise in my salary in this period. There is a possible salary cut (if not a job loss) in the coming financial year. How can one afford homes at present prices? They are bound to come down. God forbid, if IT sees a slump, one can’t imagine where will Pune be? As per me and only me, wait for atleast till end of year 2010. If you ask why, its just that it will take that long for people to realize that prices have to fall (they are presently in denial mode) Then there will be a period of down fall and a period of lull to follow. If economy improves things may start to better out. Your 10 lakhs will also become 12 lakhs safely in the bank and you would save more in that time. May be you would not even need to go for a house loan as you could then get a decent flat for 20 lakhs. Good Luck.

  248. Hey Sagar, I do not stay in that part of Pune, but as of today I or anyone can definitely tell you that 3800 psf is just not selling anymore. People are not even going for projects quoting 2500 psf. Why are you concerned now that you have already bought the flat? If it is an investment only, I would recommend to exit at your cost price and invest all your money in a bank for a couple of years till you can find sanity return to the market. Today money locked in flats for investment is dead money. On top of that add the fact that 1 rupee today is 90 paise tomorrow if not properly invested and you are set for a huge loss. If the flat is for your own, then don’t bother too much. Stay happily.

  249. Guys, Rates mentioned by the builder in the above link are really FUC****. Builders still think that they are going to get business at this rate? LOL… Few months back my friend had enquired flat in Wakad. The rate quoted was 3200 rs/sq.ft. Now that builder called him and offered same premises at 2300 rs/sq.ft. :))) Imagin if my friend would had booked it at 3200, he would have been big looser. also i heard that in Vishrantwadi rates are like 800-1000 rs/sq.ft. I think builders will soon realise that they should reduce rates to 1/2 or 1/4th of the current rate. Once annual results will be disclosed in March’09, rates will come down drastically. So dont make hurry till next 6-10 months. Also many builders are stucked in huge loans (crores). Once banks starts recovery they will not have money to repay. They will not have any option than selling properties at cheapest rate. Be patient… Be patient… Be patient… Thanks, Kiran More

  250. Dear Dheeraj,, wait for little time… after coming june u will see 40% rate cuts as compared with today’s rates. Ranjeet

  251. Hi PM, Is this right time to purchase flat or should I wait for some more time ?? I think we should wait for some more time,isn’t ?

  252. Guys my question is still there, i want to know what is going to happen with residential plots, do u all expect that rates will come down or it will stay constant at an avarage level, and what do u think after the US economy Stimulus package $800 bl. will it also boost up Indian overseas business and ppl will have there jobs back. and the priceses of real estated will again go up. and what abt our government are they going to do something or going to take some positive steps so the general ppl can also afford to have there own house? i think u got me what i mean to say. Personaly i do not like flats i want my own independant house which i can built according to my own design, and can have my own space and freedom can it happen in pune?

  253. PM, I went for the PRISM flat in Mar ‘2007 after waiting for a couple of years for the rates to come down. Since the trend those days was reverse, I though I would not be able to get a flat if I waited long. At that time flat’s in suburb’s (Baner, Pashan etc) were around 3000/sqft. So I decided to pay an extra Rs.800/sqft just to get a flat close to the city. The only reason there is a difference in rate between PRISM and my friend’s flat in Brookeside Pinnacle (Bavdhan) is prime location as far as I know (PRISM is around 2.5 kms from Pune University). What should be a realistic price for these flats as per your knowledge.

  254. See my earlier comment in Dec 2008 about gold… Ranjeet wrote, 100 % guranted analysis…. Gold is the best option to invest….. As soon as crude will increase gold will boost again…. Ranjeetsinh Link | December 30th, 2008 at 11:59 pm See What it now? 100 % Correct One… Ranjeet

  255. @Rajat, the bottom is where people start seeing affordability and value in what they are buying. That, according to me, would be average sized flats ~1000psf between 15-20 lakhs (all inclusive). In Pune, 30 lakhs for pieces of shit in far off locations is just outrageous.

  256. @Amit, what is the name of the building or society. Is it a re-sale flat? The biggest issue we have in Kharadi is WATER. If that is not an issue in the building (which I doubt) you are going for then it seems to a nice little outskirt to stay at. I quoted earlier that Kharadi prices will come down to 2000psf pretty soon. Do not know it could happen this soon! For the deal, you seem to be impressed by the rate but not the house. All I can say is that if you do not have your heart into what you are buying, forget it. 2100 is not a bargain to just go for it. Something along 1500-1600 psf lines would be considered a bargain in this area. 2100 is OK if you really like the place.

  257. Hi, I am getting a reday possesion deal in Kharadi @ 2100 psf with almost all amenities. Though the construction qulaity is not very attractive. There are too many cracks in the building. Builder says he has used 43 grade cement for construction but I am doubtfull about that. Would it be worth to buy here? Also projects like Urban Nirvana , Gera Park View and Ganga Constella have launched there low budget homes @ 2500 psf which said to have possesion in 18 months. What do you say guys?

  258. Very interesting discussion. I am holding myself for last 2 years and also asking my friend to do so. I bought a home in 2004 and its current value is 2 1/2 times (After slow down). But I don’t believe that even this is real. BTW this is the longest discussion, I ever read, Started in Aug 07 and still going on.. isn’t that cool.. The discussion is pretty informative and valuable. Mention of real price is great, especially in this slow down. It helps finding trends and if the price quoted by builder is reasonable. Thanks to contributors.

  259. @Dheeraj, For plot rates you need to be sure that you are getting a fair price. Do this. Check historical prices for that land. if you see it has skyrocketed like from 20 rupees psf to 100 psf then wait and monitor. Check how many hands has the plot exchanged. Is it the last buyer who is quoting a much higher price or has the price gone up slowly by the Greater Fool’s Theory mechanism. The plot price should stay stable for at-least an year if they have changed many hands. If this is the case then you can very well assume that the rate you are getting is a fair price. I know many investors in Pune (who actually caused the price rise by the GFT) are now seeing losses in flats are are set to put money in land. The same may happen for land also but this time it is different. There are no buyers at those crazy rates. —– @Sagar, what do you have in this PRISM set of buildings that is commanding a rate of 3800 psf! If you compare it with your friend’s one for 2800 psf, what does his society has that is lacking. Also if you compare it with Rakshak Nagar Gold in Kharadi that sold for 900psf 3 years back, do you see something drastically different? Both your areas I believe are considered ‘Outer’ areas of Pune, not less than 10-15 kms from Pune Rly Station. Rakshak Nagar I believe is less than 10 kms from Pune Rly Station.

  260. Right said Amit. Mr LKJ thinks he is smart enough to fool Puneites with his tactics. I actually saw another news item that said that these PBAP thugs have come up with another novel idea (other than reducing their profit margins of course). If you have lost your job, PBAP will pay your EMI upto 3 months :) Now let us THINK and analyze this: Why are they so generous to us? Have I married their daughter? No dear, they are desparate. They have no takers. They know people are no longer seeing value in the property rates offered and are also now cautious of taking hefty loans. There was a time in Pune when people used to talk of taking a 40 lakhs loan as buying kotmir from the sabzi mandi. Recent recession has shown that people may end up without jobs in less than a month. The job market is really bad and mark my word if you do not see a cut in salaries in the coming year. No promotions for a couple of years. Fear of job loss. Small IT companies going belly up. MNCs wrapping up and saying bye bye. Who the hell will take loans in this time? Pune builders are the greediest of the lot I believe, although they project as if they are giving you a bargain and are only slogging to build for you having hair thin margins :) Times of India (which defintely pockets in a lot of money to publishing things in the favor of these builders) quotes rates in pune areas much higher than what they are actually. TOI only publishes but the source is another pro-builder agency. Can be compared to PWC/Satyam relation ship. For all those who have question sabout going for the kill now or later, here is a suggestion: [1] You see value and and afford it, so go for it. [2] Want to get a fair price, then wait till you see Kharadi rates advertized as going for 2000 psf. This would act as an indicator that prices have really dropped. All those who believe this can’t happen, why did you believe it when it went from 900psf to 2800psf? that’s a 300 percent increase for what? 30% rise in construction and related costs? Do not get fooled by these builder marketing tactics: [1] Our construction is Lajawab – All Pune constructions are shit. Show me a falt whch does not huge cracks in it. Show me flat that do not have leakage problems or a society having insufficient parking space. Visitors being treated like shit – asked to park outside the society on the road without security. [2] We provide you xyz amenities. Evaluate what you need and what you do not. What these builders generally promise are an apple that costs 100 rupees and deliver you one that they got it for 5 rupees. It’s still an apples isn’t it :) I promised and apple and here you go. [3] Prime location sir, 5 star aa raha hai, IT park aa raha hai. Mall aa raha hai, 40 feet wide road sir. How may 5 stars, malls, IT parks does a city need? Not all can be a success and Pune roads and PMC. Let’s not talk about them. In all, anyone who does not buy a flat at this time really helps us all get these builders by the balls. After all what is the need to buy a flat now? There is already a surplus of brand new flats available in Pune that you can get for cheap rentals. Just save and save and you’ll get your dream house at half the rates sometime by EOY 2010.

  261. The market has been correcting it self. Hiranandani in Thane Estates and Medows were almost touching 8000 psf at one instance just one nad a half year ago. They were down to 6400 few months back and just this week when i visited them they were ofering a flat discount of 15 to 18 % on the price. Sidhanchal which was at 6500 to 7000 psf Kalpatru thane has cme down to flat 4200 psf and if you could manage to sqeeze some more from them… Raheja Winsor Garden Thane offering 4000 psf on ready possesion So where the market will end up in a couple of months is really not know… Wait and get the best deal that you can get best and afford… I donot know where the bottom is

  262. Guys, Ask this chairman of ‘Kumar Properties’ itself, how much rates has he reduced in his projects? Just call any Kumar office.. u will get to hear same line… ‘Our rates were always competetive , its just media hype in the market , we are not going to reduce anything!!!’

  263. A news item appeared today (Feb. 18, ‘09) on 7th page of Pune edition (print) of Economic Times. I found this news item very interesting, therefore reproducing it below : Quote : Realty prices in Pune down by 20 – 40% “Mumbai : Promoters & Builders Association of Pune (PBAP) on Tuesday said in the face of plummeting demand, real estate prices in the city have come down by 20 – 40%. We have requested all our members to bring down the prices to the lowest minimum possible. Many of our members have brought down prices by 20 – 40%. Those who have not complied will do so very soon, Lalit K. Jain, president, PBAP said here. PBAP is the representative body of 260 builders and they make 95% of the residential projects in the city, Mr. Jain said. Inventories are pilling up in the city as sales came to a standstill, he said, adding that this was caused by poor market sentiment, high interest rates and job insecurity among the buyers. — PTI” Unquote. According to me, this is the first time the PBAP has acknowledged the market reality. So, interesting days ahead! What say, cyber mates?

  264. Hello, I got a deal with PRISM homes near Aundh Bridge (adjacent to Rohan Niley) for Rs 3800/- per square feet. I have heard that property rates are going down in Pune. Can anybody provide his/her comments if the flat I brought in PRISM has been at a higher price or is as per market rate. I would just like to know if I have lost money in the deal or it is worth it’s value. Also the Brookside project by Pinnacle group in Bavdhan near Chandani Chowk on the Mumbai-banglaore highway was purchased at 2800/- per square feet by my friend. How good is the deal.

  265. Hi, friends I had gone through all of your (year 2009) comments, with the grace of GOD i got good job and it pays me good enough, from last 3 years i m hunting a residential plot for myself but it is not for investment, but as the prises ware so high that i could not afford it, but i think these crises will give me good oportunity to get one, what u ppl think about PLOT’S prises, where it’s going to land, I would like to get a plot in hadapsar area, and reuired area is 3000 to 4000 Sq Ft. what y guys suggest me should wait or grab the oportunity if i found one?

  266. Renting strategy for the day to some in these areas: Hadapsar, Magarpatta, Amanora, Kharadi & Mundhwa villages. Apologies, Amanora and Magarpatta are townships within these villages. So they are a teeny-weeny city within a village :) Please add more facts from your areas for everybody’s benefit so we cover all surrounding pune villages. If you happen to live in Pune, please add details of your areas as well. Come Feb end. More than 1000 new flat possessions would be given in Magarpatta! More so when Amanora will stick to its schedule :) and deliver those high rise buildings with loads of flats. Presently flats are still lying vacant in these areas. Guess what would anyone pay for a 2BHK in this situation? 6000? Last year people signed 2BHK lease agreements for 8-9K in these areas for a 800psf-1000psf 2 BHK houses. Guess what would they pay now? Will they pay the same or more? A couple of 2BHKs are lying vacant in my society. No idea why nobody is moving in. Is the landlord asking more than the prevailing 8K or he is not interested? Can you guess? So dear, rentals are also crashing. If you are going for a new rental contracts in these areas, cap it at 8000 if you have got your dream rental home, get a good deal at 7000 and be lucky at 6000 for 2 BHK. Do not pay any brokerage to the estate agent. Ask him to take it from the land lord as you are doing him/her a favor renting out the flat. As I say, these are present rates. We may have new rates depending on how many of us still have jobs. Good Luck.

  267. OK,. so it has started sinking into many of the folks praising the cheap 3000 psf prices :) Seems builders are also getting to terms tor educe prices. Read about Rohan builders reducing their rates. But seriously this 10% cuts etc won’t help where the prices were bloated by 60-70% in the first place. Let’s put our hands on our hearts dear Pune builders and talk 1200-1500 psf as a good rate. There is this famous statement echoed by all builders on asked to cut rates – Quality would suffer :) Are you telling me that pune properties sold in 2005 are made of mud or sand? Don’t hey have swimming pools or gardens? Calculate inflation since 2005 > 2008, it would be in the range of 25% So 900psf becomes 1200psf. Why 4000psf? Now here is another eye opener. True strory. I met this estate agent in a social gathering. He himself has a flat in Kharadi. He claims the area is shit. no facilities, water, etc. Present rate = 2600 (may be lesser till I post this :). Will easily go below 2000 by September time frame this year. He is planning to sell his property at these still bloated rates and have cash at hand. Plans to invest this money after a couple of years when we would see property rates in a more decent range. Come on guys, agents themselves are getting out of their investments (provided they find some dumbo buying their properties at prevailing rates). My suggestion is to hold on your buying decision unless ofcourse 20 lakhs is like buying poppins for you, in which case you would not be reading this in the first place. Cheap rentals are the way to go for the next 2-3 years in this city.

  268. A good article from Rediff : Layoff story… Name: Anuj Patel (name changed on request) Age: 26 Company/Sector: Oil & gas Educational qualification: BE (Electronics) Work experience: 2 years and 5 months Background check: I finished my engineering in electronics in May 2006. While I was not selected during the campus interview held at my college I succeeded in getting a job two months later. In these two months I did a crash course in advanced computing and .NET. In fact that helped as most of the questions asked to me during my interview at this oil & gas company were related to what I learnt in this crash course. How I lost my job India in 2006 was a good place to find a job and my first job got me a salary of Rs 26,000 (in hand) per month which later increased by 8 per cent in April 2007. I was very gung-ho and things were moving pretty smoothly. Until November 2008… the stock markets were crashing across the globe as bank after bank went under in the USA leading to global turmoil. My company bore the brunt of this crash and to cut costs they began downsizing staff strength. In December I along with 70 other members of my division were asked to leave. We received a severance package as per company rules. Only 22 co-workers were retained to handle our core technology operations. No liabilities Personally speaking, fortunately, I had not borrowed any money for buying a house in mid 2007. My elder brother was planning to get married and as we live in a one-bedroom apartment I wanted to purchase my own flat. I thank my stars that it didn’t happen though my brother got married the same year. Now that I am without a job — I am searching desperately; I have sent applications to at least 7 IT companies — I find myself in a very miserable position. I don’t go out and meet my friends; I often have tiffs with my girlfriend and get annoyed at minor things; I have stopped visiting my relatives. The social stigma of not having a job in a conservative family like ours is unbearable as people start questioning your ability. Family support It is indeed my fortune, again, that my parents and my brother support me through this tough time. My elder brother works for the technology division of a private bank and helps me with my financial difficulties. He has promised to pay my life insurance premiums if my savings deplete with each passing day and if I fail to find a job in the next 6 to 12 months. Who can I trust? Though two companies have offered me verbal commitments of a job offer and asked me to join mid February I don’t trust them as they have not yet given me an offer letter. A few friends have also got the same verbal commitments but no concrete offers. My company too, till December, gave us hope that there will not be mass layoffs but it did happen. I can hardly trust people anymore now after this experience. Lessons learnt: Always have an alternative source of income Never think that bad times will not visit you It helps to save money in good times; you understand its value in times like these Never trust a company’s verbal promise that you have been selected; only trust the offer letter and your abilities to scale difficult times Understand the importance of having a supporting family Don’t borrow money from banks for whatever reasons if you are not sure if you will have your job or not

  269. Yes Ranjeet. When there is recession & time to cut cost builders are giving examples how other big brands are not cutting down cost. But when market is booming they are increasing rate at hourly basis. I have personaly experianced that one. Now it is their turn. This is now buyers market instead of sellers. Builders are follwoinf rules only if it is benefitted to them & ignore if it is benefitted to customer.

  270. Dear Friends, Two points to remember, 1. I came to know from my friend, his jijaji is working with P…….. Schemes, Pune. The big b’s are having many meetings regarding the pricing structures and soon they are going to reduce the rates. The news is, They are planning to start 1BHK @ 10 Lacs only. If it happens, local/small builders will again lower their prices below 10L. 2. US and Saudi are going to cut down jobs of many Indians… Ab toh log darenge. Due to this I am quite sure no one will dare to buy flats. Even if rate for 1BHK goes near or below 10L, no one will buy flat due to this uncertainity of job. Kiran More

  271. I agree with Henko…. After reducing excise duty Mercedez cutted down rates of their vehicles in that proportion. Did builders are enough royal to do the same? If yes then why they still considering Built-up area instead carpet area as suggested by goverment? Dear builders we dont want ur mercy… If you are not ready to cut down the rates & ur profit… Then u will repeat the same history that of Farmers in Maharashtra… But u dont have to worry u can easily get a good revival package from govt since everybody knows the connecting link between …. & …… Ranjeet

  272. Strange Amanora comaring themselves with Rolex, Mercedes, These brands took 100 plus years to build brand names & they are not telling themselves how they big are. Amanora just two year old & 1400 per sq. feet extra is nowhere justified in these days where people are struggling to cope daily life & Amonora is talking about park & garden…..

  273. An advertisement of Amanora Park Town appeared today (Jan. 23, ‘09) at right bottom corner of Pune edition (print) of Times of India. I found this ad. very revealing, therefore reproducing below the text of this advertisement : Quote : “Imagine a 50% sale on a Mercedes Benz. Imagine a buy-one-get-one-free offer on Cartier Jewelry. Imagine an end-of-season-sale for Rolex watches. If you can’t imagine it, don’t worry. Neither can we. And like most quality conscious brands, Amanora too can never compromise on quality just for the sake of an attractive price. Which is why, we’ve steadfastly stuck to our prices. And our quality. We believe it is our moral responsibility to our customers who appreciate and value quality and do not mind paying a little extra for a secure and better quality of life. After all, it’s for them that we spend more on everything that goes into making Amanora a modern, digital township. The best materials, the latest imported technology, a modern digital lifestyle, the best steel, the best cement, world renowned engineers and designers. Nothing but the best. And it is for creating this superior infrastructure for easy living, that we have invested more than Rs. 1,400 extra per sq. ft. Doorstep hospitals, schools, open parks, quality roads, dependable electricity, abundant water supply, clubs and entertainment areas, every thing you’d wish for an easy, convenient and secure life. So if you feel our prices are a bit high, it’s because we spend an extra Rs. 1,400 per sq. ft. to offer the quality that the Amanora brand stands for. Good infrastructure and easy living” Unquote. Every line in above ad. speaks volumes about the pressure the top management of Amanora as well as their sales team is facing from their customers, both prospective as well as the existing. What say, cyber mates?

  274. Do you really think people have buying capaity left? I think we are heading for bad to worse. Even if price goes to half, I m afraid if many people will dare to enter property market. Fear of loosing job will keep them at bay.

  275. How is the job market in India? How sure are people to be able to hold on to their jobs? You never know how long you will have the job. And in such circumstance, I would think, it is not even advisable to buy any property in the next 1-2 years atleast unless you get it dirt cheap. If lot of people decide not to buy properties for this time frame the prices have to come down. Absolutely no doubt. I would say don’t get enticed by seeing a INR 300 reduction in prices for some flat. Keep waiting and you may get it for half the price. The properties are not worth even being used as a piss pot but hype and artificial price raise has pushed it beyond any sanity. I would still want people to follow the wait and watch policy.

  276. Dear All Very good news… Govt is going to reduce the property rates in ready reckoner Who says rates are not coming down…? The story of bubble is going to end soon…

  277. dear karandikar arrogant-amus, fools need correction especially if they are asking for it. Are you that foolishas to ignore this ?

  278. I am getting a deal in Chakan area @ rate of 2000 psf, in Eiffel,City,project. Should I go for it.They are quoting rate not less then 2000. I have been holding my decision for last 6 months, hoping the prices to come down but does not seem so. Please advise.

  279. Hello Keshav, Agree that you can get crap from crap builder pvt. ltd. Do not agree that prices from great builders pvt. ltd. is fair and justified. Do not agree Pune is California or Amsterdam to demand these premium rates Do not agree with your investment decision. Please justify this with the great builder pvt. ltd. logic you have: > A flat in in a society goes for 900psf. > Similar (because the above one is sold :)) flat in same society goes for 3000psf after 1.5 years. Does the later flat has better quality or access to amenities than the previous one? or was this late buyer looted in the name of the builder, superior construction and Oh! boy, UNMATCHED WORLD CLASS amenities! As per me, it gold sold for 3000 because there was some one ready to pay 3000 for it. PERIOD. Not because of quality/builder/etc. This may be an interesting read for all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory Since AMENITIES is in discussion, let me tell you a real story. There is this project called ‘Spring Valley’ (Not sold out yet for obvious reasons) In Oct 2007 they charged 3400psf when in an around the rate with great builders pvt ltd. was 2800psf. Over this, there was a premium of 60psf on every floor rise above floor # 4. I could not understand the logic, though the sales lady told me, its the same funda as it is in Mumbai :) Pune is not far from Mumbai you know :) Its all Mumbai culture that is gripping Pune :) Anyway, the high rate was justified on the basis of – Beautiful hotel like entrance (I would get sick going to hotels everyday) with jharna and what not. God, who is going to maintain all this I thought? More bells, more elfs you need to maintain that and more maintenance cost, that is ultimately paid by the residents. 3000 per month was the maintenance cost one was supposed to pay for a 3BHK! Let’s move forward. Beautiful entrance door, cabinets in Kitchen, fundoo HOME TOWN style luxury showers in bathroom (Go to floor # 2 to check them out in ISHANYA, you can also get the rates). Royal white painted window grills. This was the package. As per my calculation, all these extra royal fittings that come along with the flat should not cost me 1-1.5 lakhs if I plan to get them fitted later. For these, if I am asked to pay 600 (3400-2800) * 1300sf ~ 8 lakhs, I would be a crazy person. The other downside is that If I do not like the cabinet color/design or shower, I have no choice. It comes along with the flat. The flats look ‘factory made’. God knows what they would have priced if they had fitted ACs in every room (Cost price ~ 50K for 3 good quality ones) – 4000psf! Amanora ‘Park Town’ is the same ‘loot’ concept. Buy a cheap TV for 5K and sell it for 50K by bundling it with the property:) Amanora studio flats are ready to move in sir. World class amenities :) It has a railway station also sir. Hope you can reach your town using this railway station. We have submitted proposal for Rajdhani to stop here sir. The township has school and hospital too, so you do not have to send your children to the best schools in Pune :) Hospital for PREMIUM first aid only sir. For anything more you would need to go to Ruby Hall. For all those discussing ameneties, let me tell you that the price of a flat/property is primarily determined by its LOCATION. It’s LOCATION. It’s LOCATION. City locations are expensive and village/fringe locations are not. Amenities cost nothing in absolute sense. I sincerely hope that this city starts making sense and literate people not be taken for a ride by illiterate & cunning estate agents. Now Keshav, Can you please elaborate on the Amenities that got you so impressed, and how much premium you are paying for that? This means what would you price the property minus the amenities and also how much would you use the amenities (like Club House for your personal parties) on a say monthly/annual basis to get a fair idea.

  280. Hey Saurabh, If you want to: [1] live in the flat you wish to buy [2] can afford it easily, and [3] are getting your dream home [4] close to office then there is no point waiting for it. In one of my posts I have written, if you feel that you are getting VALUE for your money, then go for it. Regarding builder repo, that is all crap. Ultimately you’ll have leakages, cracks, etc. etc. in any house you go. Construction quality, all flats look like shit after 10+ years. Ameneties, is again a farce – Gym with cheap desi equipment, Clubhouse that you need to _hire_ when you need to party, piped gas that brings its own expenses and headaches. Since you are going for your dream home, let us know if this discussion group is invited in the house warming :) What da ya say guys?

  281. You can get reduced price flats from some NULLA buildes and that too under construction! :-)

  282. Yes thats absoluletly right.If search for good looking homes with good amenities, the builders will not reduce the prices.For e.g. GK builders in pliple saudagar area have accumulated lot of money in past 3/4 years deals, and now they surplus money and holding power so they are not ready to decrease their prices.I feel that builders have bribed govt thats y the govt is daily giving some housing packages by reducing interest, reducing stamp dupy etc but they are not asking the builders to make their rates realistic.It will take another 6-8 months before the builders lobby will settle down againg and will start increasing their rates again and ultimately its us who are going to be screwed up!!!

  283. Dear All, This is an amazing discussion. Lot of getting benefit of this. Thanks! I would like to share my observation – Builder may reduce prices in future, but those will be of under constrction flats and I would not take chance these days in investing a proprty which is not giving immediate ROI. Secondly, resellers don’t seem to have reduced their prices drastically. e.g. I went to Park Street, Wakad to purchase a flat. Seeing the ambieance, amenities – I was so impressed. I tried searching ready possesion flats there. The good location flats are still quoting min. 3300. So i don’t know how you people take it. But, i think the ready possession flats take more permium but worth to invest. e.g. investing 42-44 lacs for a 2BHK ready possesion flat is worth investment. Basically, lot of shopping malls like midas park, rainbow plaza, garden plaza, imperial mall, goods mall are coming up. Let me know yor thoghts. Regards! KK

  284. hi thanks for your comments.. but i have decided to go with this deal. i have searched a lot of properties by now. i can not get best of both the worlds in every deal. if the location is good prices are high…. if the cost is ok vastu is not good… and so on. i think i have found most of the things i need in my house in the current deal and leaving it may leave in a position to start looking a perfect home again and may take lot of time by the end of which the prices will rise again. saying that a perticular area is offering you a rate of 1600 or so may not get you your dream home. From my perpective locality and builder repo also matters.

  285. Hey Ritesh, Forgot this that these kanpur, nagpur, rajkot were not in the list of ‘hot’ destinations as per the experts.

  286. Hey Ritesh, Regarding pure investing in property, I was just watching CNBC awaaz ‘Hot property destinations for 2009′. For most of the ‘hot’ properties the so-called ‘experts’ gave a prediction of 25-50% returns in a 3-5 year period. I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS! Believe the real estate folks have come to look at us regular IT/non-IT folks as morons based on the trend they have been seeing :) They ask for 3000, they get 3000.They ask for 4000 they get 4000. 2 lakhs for a car parking, here you go :) And that too on credit! Remember the mantra – A thing gets sold for whatever someone is ready to pay for it. We guys set the trend and now we are to blame for this. Here’s my perspective on debt savings schemes in comparison to investing in real-estate at this time. In a 3 year period @ 10% deposit rate, banks provide a a return of 33% in 3 years and 61% in 5 years (Interest compounded annually). If you go for 5 year NSCs or KVPs, the interest earning in tax-free. This money is also liquid as you can have it whenever you need it. Over this, property gets difficult to sell the property if you wish. You need to also consider brokers fees, registration costs for the buyer, any arcane rules if your property/flat is in a township, etc. On top of all any gains you get from your property sale are taxable unless you re-invest them back in property. With all this, the supposedly 50% returns (speculated) should not be more than 30% if you are not evading tax. At all this is NO GUARANTEE sir, only expert advice from the Experts/Gurus. Investing in property at this time … not a good move as above calculations show. Buying for yourself to stay in, wait as others are advising. As mentioned in an earlier post, I have seen 1650 psf in Mundhwa (Can say Kharadi Annexe ;)) lately. My personal advise: Hold on to your cash, you can get more in the same after 2-3 years. Banks and industries really need cash, bail them out and become lend them some and earn some interest. FD rates are coming down because of all these RBI moves. ICICI is giving the max of 10.5% on special deposits. Go for it now! FMPs are another option but there is a slight risk involved.

  287. 100 % guranted analysis…. Gold is the best option to invest….. As soon as crude will increase gold will boost again…. Ranjeetsinh

  288. Those industries which are having trade in dolloar $ will face lots of trouble in the year 2009-10. Those having trade in Pound will play great…. Those having trade in Euro will play at neutral…. Play in forex in streling Pound Only….. regards, Ranjeetsinh

  289. guys, I feel still after 1st quarter of 2009 the rates will definately go down . The people who are planning to invest next year are suggested to wait and let the property market stabalize first and then think of investing. Even i am waiting for the same to invest in mumbai. Also can any one tell me is it good investing in property in the upcomming cities like kanpur, nagpur, rajkot, and many more. Thanks, Cheers!!! Ritesh Patel

  290. Jayesh Bhai Wait for 3-5 months,you will this offer in 1700/1800 psf. Don’t be exiciting…. One of good builders Sales Manager told me this.They have internal meetings and very less builders have holding capicity now.Just wait and watch for this builders for next 3-5 months.

  291. Happy New Year All of you I thank to this thread for making my new year happier by delaying my decision to buy a flat, One more good news is that I went to kondwa- katraj road once again to inquire about the rate I got Rs. 2100/- which was earlier 2800 on october and 3600 may I would book the flat if the builder is ready below 2000/- what would be your suggestion Thanks Jayesh Shah

  292. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Hi Saurabh, When you will get the possession of the above said flat?

  293. Thanks Saurabh for sharing your rates and deal here. Requesting everyone to share their deal here,this makes others awareness of current rates. By the way,please hold for next 3-5 months.You wuill get this deal minm at 18oo psf.

  294. I am getting a deal in pimple saudagar area @ rate of 2100 psf, in wadhwani project. Should I go for it. I have checked all most all the builders in this area, and they are quoting rate not less then 2500. I have been holding my decision for last 6 months, hoping the prices to come down but does not seem so. Please advise.

  295. Thanks David/Kiran. I forgot to put in one note in my earlier post – Also stay away from property related newpaper articles that get published in newspapers. Based on what I see and what I read, I think special supplements like ‘Times Property’ and articles in it are funded by these builders and so you would see things always written to favor the builders. —- Hello Amit, I think this is old news. For folks wishing to understand what these various areas mean, here is a good discussion: http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061102235602AAgBg59 Now, frankly I don’t know what the pune builders use today for selling. I think they do not use Super built up becuase they c harge exhorbitant rates for stilt parking – Sometimes close to the price of a low end car :) Coming to your question – Implications. If all is good and fair, this move would result in psf prices rising (Built up 2 carpet move). Provided the way things are shamelessly advertized, you should probably should see no change in psf rate but more additionals added to your property price to justify the MOFA move :) (This gets totalled under the ‘*’ – Conditions apply) Mr. Kumar Jain can also justify both raising psf prices + putting in additionals :) The only way to get things fair for the situation in the pune property bazaar is to kill the builders by not buying flats. If you have surplus money and want to invest in property, think of investing in another, property wise, decent city. As of today’s real-estate situation buy only ready possession property anywhere. Believe me, today’s pune prices will not fetch you anything from an investment perspective even after a long term 3-5 years. I would not be surprised if you still see 2200psf advertized in 2013! (Prices have to be in line with paychecks) You can close to double your money in a safe bank deposit. If you are buying taking a loan, then God forbid, you would be in serious loss, leave aside the sleepless nights you would have because of the loan. If you have no option than to stay in the city, rent a flat out at 2% of the flat’s cost value. Go for a long lease agreement. Do not fear moving places after 3 years. Furnish your house as you would furnish your own house (You can do everything except for structural modifications). There are good packers and movers available these days. Just put aside 25K as the shifting expenses (within city) every 3 years (if you fail to renew your contract). This strategy makes you free. You can live close to where you work. You can also change cities for better opportunities. Moreover it is fun to move in a new house everytime and make new friends :). Last but not the least you have all your savings with you invested in instruments with better liquidity. Very recently, of what I read and also saw on TV, these builders are playing a new game. It’s called the ‘Buy back offer!’ It goes like this. The advertized property rate ‘seems’ to be attractive – Like 2500psf when you feel 2800psf is a good deal (because you see most other properties advertized at 2800). You are asked to pay 2 lakhs booking amount for a project on paper (pre-launch). Then you pay as the property progresses. Now builder commits to ‘buy back’ the property at the rate at which he sold after ‘n’ years. What you forget to realize it that you are effectively lending money at 0% rate to the builder :) You may have ready cash but some many also take loans at 10% and lend it at 0%!! You may be thinking that atleast the promise is that my 2500psf will not sell for 2000psf! after 3 years. At 6% inflation your 2500psf should really be worth 3000psf, if (the BIG IF :)) 2500 was a fair deal. The builder probably knows that its not a fair deal and the real price should have been 2000psf today that could sell for 2500 3-4 years later. He hence is smart to commit on a future rate today! So do your research. Stay away from stay aways. Do not get excited about such news and adverts. With a property you are making the second biggest decision of your life (after marriage :)) Good Luck.

  296. I have heard a confirmed news that MOFA (Maharashtra Ownership Flats Act) has been revised and here after it is mandatory for builders to charge on carpet area and not on built up. What will be the implications of this ? Will this reduce the prices drastically?

  297. hi… PM, its not just a comment you wrote, but its feeling of everyone who are interested to buy flat/row house. Friends, if you see posts from some of our so INTELLIGENT friends, they say buy flats anytime (even if rates are 5000/sq.ft. :) ), prices will never go down. But today fact is that many guys fear of loosing job… many builders have reduced flat rates. If you would have followed the advice of those INTELLIGENT friends, definately there would have been no other option than suicide. Please be patient and do not buy properties. Global market is stopped and there is fear of loosing jobs. Many companies are removing highly paid employees. Also we will see huge fall in construction prices in just few months. Kiran More

  298. Hi PM, An excellent comments …… Cheers!!!!

  299. It is not possible for a decent salaried person earning 5-7 lakhs to go for a house in pune at today’s rate without stretching himself/herself. Dowry is an option for married/going to be married folks. I have read about a couple of cases in local newspapers where a few so-called educated folks in the IT industry beat up/killed their wives just because they needed money for down payment to buy a house in Pune! Folks who are up waiting for buying a flat hold on. I have seen one flat go in Kharadi for 1650 psf! This was under a lottery offer of 15 flats where the first one gets the flats for this rate. For others it was a flat 20% off. The project is called FLORA Phase-1. Price in these areas should really be 1500-2000psf with decent amenities. I say this otherwise how do you justify 200-300% price hikes in 2-3 years? Its is pure speculation. In any case even if the prices do not come down, they will not rise (Pune builders like to quote – Prices are already ROCK-BOTTOM. I think they do either not understand what a ROCK is or what bottoming out means). Another outlook is that prices do not come down, it makes zero financial sense to buy a house in pune. You can afford a good house on rent for 3% of the house’s market value in this city. Folks buying a flat should checkout that you can easily get a 7% on FD POST TAX from any bank in India today. So buying a house today means a 4% annual depreciation in your money. Another bit of information worth debating on. A 2.5 BHK project called Kumar Paradise near Magarpatta is unable to sell their project since over 1.5 years! I remember seeing their advert in TOI last July (2007) I do not know about the rate but just looking into the holding capacity of Kumar Builders I see that this guy has made a bounty from those who have purchased flats in his projects. Pick up somelatest copy of TOI and you should see an advert of this project today in a week’s time. Another fact – There are close to 1000 _new_ flats that will be released in an year’s timeframe in Magarpatta City. I don’t see all of them either sold or bought by folks who want to stay in them. Assuming 50% of these go on rent, will there be so many renters! Will that bring rentals down. Present rentals for Magarpatta are in the range of 8000-9000 after negotiation (if you are not as desparate to move in today evening) for a 2BHK. Does it mean you would be able to rent a flat for 2% of the flat’s worth in the coming months! Pune property bazaar is turned into shit because of pure speculation. O … and have we forgotten Amanora towers, Hadapsar? Do we have people to stay in these flats? If yes, where are they staying today? If they are on rent, who would rent out the properties they vacate? Are we talking about a surplus here and Pune builders playing dirty with property prices. I would really like to see a breakup of the property price. Good house construction, leaving aside land and municipality costs 600 psf even today (5 years back it was 400 psf). Have raw material costs increased 5 fold? Has labor cost increased 5 fold? Did you start taking home 5 times the salary you took back in 2003? O stupid of me … there has been a crazy demand that the builders say. So actually our cost is still 800-1200 psf but we have found that people (read fools) are still buying our flats no matter what we charge them by saying prices will be up by 400 psf in the next 3 weeks :) I would say, a thing gets sold at whatever price someone is willing to pay. If you cannot afford a house for 3500psf there are others who can cough up 10K psf. It is whether you see a true value in what you are buying? If you have a good amount of money you would not care because buying a house is just a buying a new shirt or a trouser for such folks. There are enough gullibles there who do not understand finance or will look at things in the short term. Pune prices have gone up 300% in 3 years. This distorted fact itself is proof that they expect that the same wouId continue in the days to come. Insuranace companies used to sell ULIP plans quoting a 150% return last year. Today they quote an average of 10% over 5 years hiding the fact that the same plan gave -60% since last year? This is because they want to give you a distorted view. Lot many poor senior citizens got trapped in all these adverts and hype and invested their life’s savings in these. It’s your money. Nobody can take it from you if you do not want to give it. Do not get influenced by marketing and what people are doing around you. Stay away property agents. Stay away fro people who have already bought flats at these crazy rates because they would not like to think that they made a bad investment. Gather the facts, put in your own calculations and make your own decision. Good Luck.

  300. Hmmm… 2300/sq ft seems to be costly at this time in my view. you should have booked it after some time and definately would have got best deal of life. :( kiran more

  301. I got the 17 Lacs for 11/2 BHK in Eiffel city @ chakan near proposed chakan airport. Area : 745 Sq feet including parking..stamp duty etc. How is this ?

  302. This is the thread where i regularly visit and check what others think, Recently I visited one of the Builder nr. Kondhwa where he quoted me 2600/sq feet and was still ready for negotiation if you have cash in hand, According to me I feel one should pay not more than 20lac. for 2bhk and 27 lac for 3bhk having atleast 900 sq ft and 1200 sq ft respectively. One of my friend who is working with of the Reputed builder in pune said that they are facing severe crisis and are not able to re-pay loans furthur they are taking additional funds from private party at higher interest rates for completing the project. Now what if there is no sale. Builder is losing at an average of Rs. 65/- sq feet monthly only on interest keeping aside other overheads. I guess Before 2009 Diwali would be an appropriate time to buy flat.

  303. Hi, Last week I visited at Pimple Saudagar for 2 BHK flat, the sales manager offer me price of 2300 per sq/ft.But I told him that I am just here for survey.I talk with him near abuot 2-3 hrs. After lot of discussion he told me that do not buy a flat in next 3-4 months. Now builder lobby has meetings over meetings because only 5% flats has been booked . So small builders will “quit” from market. You will get the flats @ 1700/1800 sq ft. Please be petience….you will rewarded with good price.

  304. Dont buy atleast for next two – three months. Even if the price is not coming down , its not moving up either. All the real buyers are in safest position and should be sitting at fence. Pune can not stand isolated from the rest of the world. Its just testing ur patience. and individual with great patience will be rewarded with great price!!! Its our market.. buyers market!! Enjoy!!

  305. Searching in Pune

    I am interested in buying a 1 or 2 BHK in magarpatta city. Should I wait for few months. the real estate agents say that their wont be any correction…i dont believe them….since i dont have much information abt the real estate trends in Pune…i am turning to this wonderful space to help me out….

  306. I have been an occasional visitor to this forum and first visited a few months back when I was considering to buy some flat in either pune or bangalore. The prices were high and this forum and others were anticipating a decline… Ranjit did give a correct analysis… I was just wondering lot of people would have booked the flats already in these areas and they should be paying already fat EMIs every month… aren’t they being fools to pay higher EMIs for a flat which has got its price reduced already… if they buy it now probably they would get much cheaper… in recent times, as I see here in US, the economy is in turmoil… must be having a lot of negative effect in indian job market also… how and why would people keeping big fat emis in such conditions for a flat which is no longer worth what they are paying… shouldn’t they try to to sell it cheaper to somebody rather than being fooled… my I not correct?

  307. Everybody is talking about recession now…. But I anticipated it b4 one year……. And believe me.. nobody is having solution to overcome from this situation. Actually for an economist it is necessory to study the changes that are happening all over the world. Again we must know about tastes, beliefs & values of our society. If we are comfartable with world changes then & then only we have o enter into globalization otherwise atleast we have to know about the impact of changes upon our policies & strategies… Our politians are fool & each time they are acting as they are father of country. Next days are very tough…man.. be ready for that…. http://www.shieraneco.blogspot.com

  308. Pune was having property exhibition in meridian on 22nd nov and after reading Pune Times Property , I called up leading developers one in Viman nagar and the other in Wakad for a 2BHK. The one in wakad was giving appliances and boasting abt LCD. The viman nagar quote for 2bhk was 55L and wakad 41L and these are under construction flats with delivery 2 years away. I did not find any correction in the prices but Yes I asked for negotiation and they asked me to come down and talk. So the rates ae Still Holding on in pune and Amit Sinha is correct to let the prices fall.

  309. Still builders in area like Kharadi are quoting same price i.e 3000 / sq ft. But I have heard from couple of sources that they are ready to negotiate upto 2400 – 2300. Builders are now saying that they can not give discount on already constructed flats. These are the people who have already sold these now ready possesion flats at 1900 – 2000 at launch. So why can not they decrease the price at those levels when evrybody in market is feeling the heat. Dont take immediate buy decision if you found that builders will never come down. These are us who have helped them to sustain even in such a market condition. Let us see too how long they will hold without us. Dont make their pockets fat anymore. I strongly urge… DONT BUY unless u get 30 – 40 % less.. (which was 3000 should be @ 2100 – 1800 ) which is the realistic price in area like Kharadi and Hadapsar…

  310. Does anybody knows about Atul Enterprises (Kothrud) who have started a project in Pimple Saudagar (Alcove)? About their construction quality? Customer service? and commitment toward project completion?

  311. Yes that will be a great idea. I never heard about this area. I believe flat rate varies in Pune as per location. Rate should come down in developing area also.

  312. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Hi David, It sounds good :) Will you please post the Wikimapia link for the same to get exact location details.

  313. I got the 24 Lacs for 2 BHK in KRISHNA Residency @ Bavdhan near Lalani IT park. Area : 910 Sq feet including parking..stamp duty etc. How is this ?

  314. Have prices dropped in pune? News channel say based on the pressure from FM and banks , most builders agree to bring down prices by up to 35%. I was looking for a 1 BR in Konark Campus in viman nagar , last one year price has remained steady at INR 27 Lacs , and even if it is nego. it is like 25K – 50k INR.

  315. Why there is no havoc on CREDAI news who has promised FM that they will cut the rates across India? I did not see this news in any news paper today…

  316. FM asks airlines, auto & realty firms to cut rates. Real estate prices has to come down. !!!! :-)

  317. sorry read it as by 3-4%

  318. Hi everyone… Construction houses facing difficulty for short term capital. See newspapers of last few weeks.. Some companies have published advertisments in order to collect funds from public stating attaractive rate of returns… Very difficult position… But one thing we must admire that construction houses are having very good holding power… otherwise they cant strech their stance upto this level… but don’t worry at all… They couldn’t hold more now… Reduction in interest rates will not boost real estate in near time unless there is a big fall in interest rates say upto 3-4% Ranjeet

  319. Free Articles Today

    the real estate prices will crash like never before please wait until march 2009-dont buy anything now the developers have already enjoyed .and earned enough.dont make any wrong decision at present.

  320. Hi Guys, We will dispaly our findings here….if you got the rates in good area, then please update here… Save your community to spend more money

  321. Hi Amit, I got the rates at Bavdhan, @2600 rs…

  322. Can anybody please answer my above question?

  323. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    This is the copy paste of the comment posted by shubham on 5th Aug 2007 **************************************************** Shubham wrote, Indian Real Estate is going to go up for sometime atleast. Private Equity firms have stepped into it and they are definitely going to take it at a higher price. Link | August 5th, 2007 at 11:01 am ****************************************************

  324. Indian Real Estate is going to go up for sometime atleast. Private Equity firms have stepped into it and they are definitely going to take it at a higher price.

  325. Guys, I think resale markets will need some time to be corrected, or wont be corrected ever with a hope of rising again. The properties from builder have scope for negotiations, discounts and offer. I would like to warn you about one blogger “Ravi Karandikar”. He writes a blog on real estate in Pune, and many people visit them. I was one of them. I have talked to him also. My feedback for Ravi – 1. Ravi K promotes proprties of good builder, i don’t know his interest. But he doesn’t dare to write negative about Magarpatta, Amanora, Nanded City, etc. You consult him, and you will find the same. 2. He confuses people. He will never pass a firm judgement. He will confuse you. 3. His statements are very contradictory. So, before even trusting his site/blog – please ensure that you have advice from others as well as you have used common sense. 4. 90% of his comments are from newspaper. e.g. Business Standard, or Economic Times. His site can be a good point to know about what is happening in Pune, but not at all good for ay kind of guidance to invest or not. I don’t appreciate his blog. I like to talk and read comments which are very clear. Sorry Ravi, I have to say this either to improve in your clarity while talking to people or to stop advising. Don’t confuse, or misguide. Regards, KK.

  326. Correction : Pashant : Pashan**

  327. Can anybody please comment on rates in area like Kharadi and Mundhawa? Even the rates in areas like Baner , Kothrud and Pashant seems to be falling I can not see a single % correction in this area. The rates are ranging from 2800 to 3500 since last 8-9 months now. Does anybody think we will see a correction here? And what rate do you think will be best to get in.

  328. don't buy right now

    Hello DIGRASKAR , I am not mentally sick and I am talking about the fact.For how long TCS or Infosys can afford to pay the salary with out project.These two companies may not go for lay offs but they go for a huge pay cut (up to 60%).Then think about the other IT companies.As far as I can see , the financial crisis will hit the bottom in mid of 2009.we haven’t seen the worst yet.We can expect 30% to 50% correction in real estate prices in starting of 2010.I would suggest every one to keep the cash as much as you can. Wait and See….

  329. Hello Don’t buy right now, Why are you hoping such a bad thing? I hate pepole like you who are mentally sick. Hope for some good things and think positively. Already TCS, Infosys has declared that there would be no lay offs and share market is picking up again. Hope that there would be no layoff at the same time real estate market would be affordable.

  330. don't buy right now

    Hopegully IT companies will do huge lay off / pay cut in another 3 to 6 months.Every one wants to buy a home in Metros or sub metros.But People need a solid job with fat salary to invest huge amount on homes.

  331. Real estate will never go below 20 to 25 in metros and sub-metros%.. The very fact is that we have 1 billion population and most of these population is in the rural areas. Every year lakhs of people migrate from rural to urban areas. So the demand is always there. People keep buying. There will be one or the other customer especially the prime localities are good in demand. Take for example delhi. How big is delhi?What is the current population of delhi? Will more people not like staying in delhi?

  332. the real estate prices will crash like never before please wait until march 2009-dont buy anything now the developers have already enjoyed .and earned enough.dont make any wrong decision at present

  333. Dear All, As every knows all market is going down but in Pune builders have made the lobby to keep the price high Is it true??? Is it advisiable to by the new flat now???

  334. Dear all, I am not having much experience/exosure to real estate. I have got 3 plots in Andhra Pradesh which have appreciated by 200% in the last 3 years. I do not know the change in the last 3 months. I am a financial/stock market analyst. I will give my views on real estate. Plot prices my rise due to following reasons. Rupee depreciated upto 50Rs. in the last 3 months. Inflation is maintaining around 10% for the lat 6 months. Food articles like rice, vegetable, pulses, edibile oils are increasing day by day indicating in real terms rupee value is coming down. people will try to keep their assets in forms other than cash, stock market. Which leave only real estate and gold. Gold is already rising in the lat 6 months. People will/should be scared of keep their assets in the form of cash.When the liquidity goes up due to RBI actions, inflation will go up but economic growth will be maintained. Economic growth means increase in the real estate prices. Flat prices also may rise due to above reasons. But there is one weak point. i.e. steek prices are coming down. I am not watching cement prices. If labour cost also comes down, the new flats may quote at slightly increased prices. In the coming months stock market may recover and real estate prices my be puhsed up. Consiering above points buying plot is advisable and instead of postponing/buying flats it is better to buy plot at far away area and build the house, then total cost will come down. I feel buying flat at these prices by a salaried employee is not advisable.

  335. Correction: It is steel not steek

  336. News & Events Exclusive Offer ! Wadhwani Construction offers Free Indica Car with a 3BHK Flat. Sai Vaibhav, a scheme of 1 BHK Luxurious Flats has been newly launched on popular demand. More…

  337. dear Mr Ranjit,hats off 2 u -kumar

  338. I believe everybody was against the raising rates from the time when it started touching the sky. Only fear everybody had was that if prices shoots to the level which they could not afford how will they build their dream home. Now as prices stared coming down everybody seems to be happy and ready to wait till more correction happen in near future.

  339. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Oooo hu hu hu… everybody is against the raising rates now. Thats great http://specials.rediff.com/money/2008/oct/22slid1.htm

  340. Ranjeet , is this price fall for flats only or applicable to land.

  341. Ranjit is the man of this blog. Really good anticipation. Hats off, sir! All the others were talking baseless and still Ranjit was sticking to his point. Great ! Wish if you can get in touch with me at nihal.kamat at gmail.com. I don’t mind paying your fees for further consultancy. Regards, NK.

  342. I have read so many comments here saying prices has come down. It would be better if every one will be specific about the builder and the rates. Without these all the comments are only looks good to read and which is pointless.

  343. Well one of my co-workers friend had booked a shop for 63L. This site is constructed by a giant whose name starts with G***. He gave 1L cheque as token to the company and later decided to quit by paying their handling charges. But the construction company reduced the rate of the commercial shop from 63L to 53L. Site location is near P** C*** Club, Baner. I found one more example where the broker reduced 3BHK flats rate from 40L to 30L at Pimple Saudagar (G* Builders). Guys findout good property, finalise the deal and later try to break the deal, I am damn sure the broker/builder will reduce the property rate heavily and its practical.

  344. Yaar Kiran, Can you please provide the builder name where your friend has visited to buy a house?? I have waited so long to buy the house in pune. I have been to park street but still they are not ready to come down by much and I do not want to believe any unreputed builder even if he is ready to come down by 500+. If you provide me the information I would be greatly appreicated.

  345. Guys, If people working in US are worried about whether to buy in India or not then we who are in India should think 10 times more before buying. DAC the share maket is below 10000. Ha…Ha… It really sucks man. I am not Ambani who can bare EMI even if I loose my job or even when market falls. Kiran More

  346. Dear Friends, Buying a flat/individual house in Pune is really dream of everyone. Buy important things is “at what rate?”. Are you interested to pay whole earning in EMI for life long? and how long our IT jobs are secure these days? US recession and Indian Share Markets major fall is going on. I guess we should wait and watch for the flat rates to fall down more. The actual construction cost for any flat is around 900 INR and it varies depending upon locality. My advice would be “WAIT AND WATCH” as Ranjit has told since beginning. There are many cases where people are fooled by builders. My co-worker is planning to buy flat as his wife is also drawing huge salary. But the flat rates are too high and he post-poned his decision to by flat. Now those builders to whom he visited couple of months ago, are ready to cut down the flat prices atleast by 500 INR per SQ. FT. I really agree to the statements made by Ranjit and Rajit you are the man of this blog. DAC please do some survey in the market and come up with real rates of RE. I guess no one would love to pay huge EMI’s life long and in the situation where jobs are unstable. Be Wise, Dont Buy Flats anywhere at the moment, but save money to buy flats in next 8 – 10 months. Kiran More

  347. Shriniwas Kulkarni

    Ranjeet you are a don!!!! Awesome analysis – I wrote once in February that CNBC that the stock market will l come down to 12000 in September and everyone pooh-poohed me – but look at it today – it out-fell even my expectations. The investment banks borrowed from banks and invested the same money in same banks stock raising the banks assets – and lending more the the IBs and eventually ate themselves out. Same for “retail investors” in India and the realty companies. As for the Pune reality – IMHO the true rate for Wakad – Sus – Pashan – Pimple Saudagar should be in the range of 1600 – 2300 based on construction quality and location. People with 30 lakh + budgets (like me – since I work in US) can now look at better deals on Row houses etc. But I am going to wait till March – April for a better deal. Instead I can buy a nice 4 bedroom, 2 car garage house for 20000-40000 US$ in suburbs of San Jose :P

  348. STORY OF PUNE REAL ESTATE Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollars as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around. 1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar. 2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, now A and C own 1 dollar each while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar. * The net asset of the country now = 3 dollars. 3) Now C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country, and land is non producible asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A, and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollars. *A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar. * B sold his land and got 2 dollars, so his net asset is 2 dollars. * C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollars but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net residual asset is 1 dollar. * Thus, the net asset of the country = 4 dollars. 4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted having sold it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollars from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollars. The payment is by 2 dollars cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollars. But since he owed B 2 dollars, his net asset is 1 dollar. * B loaned 2 dollars to A. So his net asset is 2 dollars. * C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollars. * The net asset of the country = 5 dollars. A bubble is building up. (5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollars. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollars from C, and cancellation of his 2 dollars loan to A. * As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins. His net asset is 2 dollars. * B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollars, but since he has a debt of 2 dollars with C, his net Asset is 2 dollars. * C loaned 2 dollars to B, so his net asset is 2 dollars. * The net asset of the country = 6 dollars; even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollars in circulation. (6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous. (7) One day an evil wind blew, and an evil thought came to C’s mind. “Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollars in circulation, and, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most only 1 dollar, and no more.” (8) A also thought the same way. (9) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. * So, in the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollars. * B owed C 2 dollars and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollars is now 1 dollar. So his net asset is only 1 dollar. * C has a loan of 2 dollars to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollars, his Heart is palpitating. * The net asset of the country = 3 dollars again. (10) So, who has stolen the 3 dollars from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land was worth 4 dollars. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollars on paper. B’s net asset is still 2 dollars, his heart is palpitating. (11) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollars bad debt to B, but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now. * A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollars. * B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( he lost everything ) * C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar * The net asset of the country = 3 dollars. ************ **End of the story; BUT ************ ********* ****** There is however a redistribution of wealth. A is the winner, B is the loser, C is lucky that he is spared. A few points worth noting – (1) When a bubble is building up, the debt of individuals to one another in a country is also building up. (2) This story of the island is a closed system whereby there is no other country and hence no foreign debt. The worth of the asset can only be calculated using the island’s own currency. Hence, there is no net loss. (3) An over-damped system is assumed when the bubble burst, meaning the land’s value did not go down to below 1 dollar. (4) When the bubble burst, the fellow with cash is the winner. The fellows having the land or extending loan to others are the losers. The asset could shrink or in worst case, they go bankrupt. (5) If there is another citizen D either holding a dollar or another piece of land but refrains from taking part in the game, he will neither win nor lose. But he will see the value of his money or land go up and down like a see saw. (6) When the bubble was in the growing phase, everybody made money. (7) If you are smart and know that you are living in a growing bubble, it is worthwhile to borrow money (like A ) and take part in the game. But you must know when you should change everything back to cash. (8) As in the case of land, the above phenomenon applies to stocks as well. (9) The actual worth of land or stocks depend largely on psychology

  349. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    And at last its below 10K SENSEX 9,981.64 -599.85 -5.67 (as of 3:25).

  350. Folks, This is going to be an era of wealth destruction. Forget prices coming down which it will dramatically..there will be very high level of unemployment and businesses folding up. The IT sector and Banking and Insurance industry..which were hitherto the prime pay masters..will have to re-engineer and will witness significant job cuts and salary cuts. Its not just about houses anymore!!

  351. I CAN SEE some strong correction in the real estate market as well..by Guest on Oct 16, 2008 02:15 PM PLEASE POSTPONE ANY PURCHASE OF PROPERTY TILL THE PRICES HAVE DROPPED BY ATLEAST 50% FROM THEIR PEAK .. YOU SHOULD STAY ON RENT FOR THE NEXT 1-2 YEARS THIS IS ALSO IMMINIENT AND WILL SAVE YOU A LOT OF MONEY IF YOU DELAY YOUR PURCHASE . HOUSING IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST INVESTEMENT OF OUR LIVES , SOMETHING WE SPEND 20 YEARS OF OUR WORKING LIVES PAYING BACK .. PLEASE POSTPONE THIS DECISION BY 1YEARS AND SAVE YOUR SELF FROM GETTING BURNT, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE DID IN THE STOCK MARKET .

  352. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Its almost there with REALITY Index crashing by 75.68% in a year. SENSEX 10,194.79 -614.33 -5.68 Still dont buy flats since the rates are bound to go down now.

  353. I think the builders got too greedy and soared the prices but looking at the world economy now major player like banks and insurance companies have plummeted. This will affect Indian markets, the builders have invested money and now as there is a deadlock either they have to wait a long time to recover or simply do a correction in their prices.

  354. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    The prices should come down almost in all areas.

  355. Hey David and Ranjeet, It is ok, but the real estate prices will come down in whole Pune or only in the newly developed / developing areas what is your view? AMP

  356. Dear David…. I am agreed with ur statement 100%….

  357. Agree David, one should wait atleast 6 months before buying any property. The global economic crisis, stock market crash, uncertainty with jobs in IT and ITeS, financial sector has already trickled and going to further in the coming days. Any sane person would think twice before making a big financial commitment during these times. Just look at stock market from 21K to 11K in less than a year thats 50%, is real estate any different? Historically rising stock market is a sign of strong liquidity which in turn boosts reality prices and when stocks crash, liquidity gets sucked out of the market and reality demand falls. Good news for first time home buyers as prices are going to fall and get affordable. TO the best of my knowledge pune prices should dip as supply is in excess of demand.

  358. Hi Dheeraj, Its best to wait for minimum 6 months.After this period you have a lot’s of chioce in your budget. Reason is that already economic is down and the builders earn lots of money in last 2 years.They can hold there flats for some period because they have sufficient capitol with them. But by some time intrest is more on this capitol and they can’t afford. So you will get a best deal.I am doing same. Let me know your thoughts……

  359. Now as we all know reallty prices are coming down and builders are providing lots of facilities without charging anything for it. Will it be a wise decision to buy house at this time negotiating the price that we want to give or should we still wait for some more time for price to come down in Pune?

  360. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Think before booking your flat. As many as 159,000 jobs were cut in the U.S. in September, the worst ever retrenchment in a month for five years, the government has reported, heightening fears that the economic downturn was worsening and could persist well into next year. http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/47374/1

  361. And market will not stable still minimum 1 year.I disucss this things with my friends , they are working in share market. If you got any call from builders then please tell them that you have a budget of 2k per sq. ft. Definitely they will tell you that this is not possible… But ask them rudely that don’t call me again 9 (Thet are doing this with us when market was UP) if your prises more that 2k.

  362. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    As predicted share market is declining towards 10K. SENSEX 11,821.26 -705.06 -5.63 (as on 6 Oct 3:30 pm)

  363. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Hudapsar – Actual rates – 2790 With an offer(that they are telling about)you can save from Rs. 390 to 440 psqft. Resulting rates – 2350 – 2400 psqft.

  364. Hello, Anybody having any idea about the rate in Mhatre bridge area. AMP

  365. 2 sittings – drop of 600 implies frop of 300 per sitting. I would suggest have a couple of more sittings and get the rate to around 2400.

  366. Dear Dont_buy_flats_in_pune, I think we dont have right to list the rates with respect to individual builders… It will be better if we share the offered rate & Cutoff rate as per locality…. e.g. in Wakad one builder quote me rate of Rs.3500 but he is ready to cut down the rate upto 2900 after two sittings. i am planinng to wait until best….

  367. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Let us share the rates with each other (as David has done) with the builders/project name. Which will benifit all of us to negociate the rates and not loose the money.

  368. Dear R K Even if 60 lakh house goes down to 45 lakh do you dare to buy a house?? US wall street companies are getting closed, no where in the world economy doing good, there are no jobs, companies are kicking of the employees…bla………bla…….I am just thinking now would bank have money to give loan to the customers?? I heard that ICICI bank is not doing good. Not sure how true it is…

  369. The time has finally come for affordable homes with realistic prices. Now is the time to go to the builder’s office with stretched legs right on his table and clinch a deal at your terms. Do not make the worst mistake of buying under construction apartments as these builders are going thru a credit crunch, investor community who thought of making quick bucks in reality market are stuck and may go behind on their payments with falling prices. All in all expect correction of 30 – 40 % atleast within 3- 6 months just to be in sync with stock markets.

  370. Hey Dear Ranjeet, You are the “MAN OF THE BLOG”. You are ablolutely right…… Before 2 months back my friends purchase a flat at Pimple Saudagar @2750 Rs per sq. feet. They negotate the rates from 3100 :) I was planning to purchase a flat ar same rate but due to high prices I don’t. The Sales Manager has my contact details and lase sunday. Date 28 Sept, He called me and told that he is ready to buy a flat at 2200 Rs per sq. feet. One builder at Dyhari, when I call him for enquiry, he came at my home , I mean to say I got PICKUP and DROP facility from him…:) He is ready to sell a flat at 25 Lacks with free parking….whats this signs of ? Thanks Ranjeet to aware of facts to others….

  371. Common DAC , Answer Ranjeets Questions

  372. DEAR ALL……. BE READY TO BUT YOUR DREAM HOMES AT AFFORDABLE PRICES SOON……… It’s my promise to all…… read any newspaper…… Dear DAC, Why stock market is declining? where is the growth which u r claiming? Why people are kicking out from industries? Why financial institutions suffering a lot? Why overall world is fearing abour big recession? Why? Why? Why? You must have to give answers for that??

  373. Dear Friends it is nice to read such an array of comments/opinions on this site. The price of Real Estate depends upon following factors :-    (a)   Affordability   (b)  Interest Rates & Availability of Credit.   (c)   Demand Vs Supply    (d)  Price Vs Rent ratio    (e)   Presence of Investors/Speculators Vs End users            Well on all counts if you look it is very clear that in years to come the prices of Real Estate in India are headed down. After all have people forgotten the down market of 1997-2002!! More over in India has any trend till date lasted more than 5 years? The answer is never!!           For example I bought a Flat in NOIDA for Rs 5.4 lakh in 1992. The bank interest rate was 14%. The flat went for a rent of Rs3000/- pm. Today the interest rates are back to similar levels but the rents for a Flat worth Rs 54 lakh is not Rs 30000/- but may be just Rs 10000/-. So gentlemen the so called demand is only for buying but not for staying. This is clearly evident in huge mismatch between the cost and the rents. Remember even in Peak of Stock Mkt Bubble when P/E ratios reach ridiculous levels of 30 etc. every one says prices will rise further because "This time it is Different". Well friends it is always same. The Greed & Momentum which carries the Mkt to an unsustanable extremes and then the Long Road of Price Correction starts. The correction can be both in price fall or even in terms of time where prices stay flat for few years.               My advice to any person thinking of buying a Flat is to have patience and have a time horizone of 1-3 years. You will get a house which is fairly priced in this time. Meanwhile stay in a rented house and enjoy all the frills with just paying 3% cost of Flat as rent every year!!

  374. The Global credit crisis is getting murkier and tougher. Everytime experts see an end to it, it just re-emerges clarifying how even experts know very less of it. From a simplistic perspective, 10 years back credit was not so easily available anywhere in the world. The financial insruments created during the late 90s acted as levers and made credit available to a larger % of population around the world.  Financial institutions in the West are taking the brunt of the current credit meltdown and have deep holes in their bottom lines due to asset write downs. Construction boom is not esoteric..it has happened around the globe and has been leveraged by easy  availability of credit. If this availability is getting choked in the west…it is bound to be global too. No rocket science in understanding its implications on businesses which depend on "borrowed money" Gents watch out for great cash deals in the near future ( six months)..unfortunately, somebody’s joy will be somebody’s sorrow!!

  375. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Yesterday a Delhi based builder has attempted suicide due to huge bank loan on him. Unfortunately he murdered his wife and daughter before attempting suicide.

  376. Hi, We all are really waiting for the downfall. Let us see what happens.

  377. India Real Estate

    Very interesting discussion… :) Would be nice to see a follow up on this one year down the line now…

  378. again who told u that in US prices went down by mere 5 % in good areas…. r u comparing NY with Pune?

  379. DEAR DAC, Merely 15-20% means a lot of saving to real buyers….. Its around few lacs….. Again I agree that in some areas prices will be reduced at smaller %. But gain is always gain…. You must accept the fact that Pune real estate boom was driven by speculators & investors.. It was for short span & now coming to end….

  380. Dear Ranjeet, I never said that the market is not down. I have been saying since from the day I wrote to this thread is  that how much do you think it will go down? 10-15 or max 20% (again varies depends on location). I have been reading the news that there is a real estate boom in india since from last two to three years but the fact the it never went down except the last two months which is exception because of the other issues bla….bla….bla. But if you compare todays price (20% less) with the 2 year’s back price still you have a better margin. To tell you more US market is the worst in the history of their market but still prices went down by 5% in good areas and don’t forget US is a developed country and inida is a developing country. So I believe ………….. Anyways BTW : If you are a genuine user any time is a good time to buy a house that is what i have been saying. Don’t expect prices will go down by 50%. –DAC

  381. Again one thing, visit any nationalised bank & ask them how much loan proposals they are handling as compare with the previous months?? And agian bad news for u interest rates are ready to hike again…. So……………..???????????????

  382. Dear Dac, If it is not possible to make correct analysis/prediction for u then do one simple thing… Just see newspapers from 14-08-2008 to till date…. See all advertisments published therein regarding real estates…. Just note down how many builders are offering discounts and other free amenities… Is it not the sign of dawnfall?? Again some builders published an advertisment stating that they are going to save your 5 to 6 lacs…. what is the reason behind this GRACE & MERCY?? Just note down the fact that more than 90% builders are displaying the rate per sq feet…. Do u see it b4?? DAC…. Now u have to agree with the fact that rates are showing downtrends…….And I was not wrong…… And if you are not agree with my words then ur motive is suspectius.. Sorry.. I couldn’t do anything for that one!!

  383. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Hey..cool down. Dont be angry. Here are some numbers – Aditya Garden Phase -4 Rate : Rs. 3100 – 3700 per sq/feet.  Discount (they are calling this as scheme benifit and offering by giving discount on ICICI interest rates) : from Rs. 150 – 170 per sq/feet. You need to have only 2.5 L for booking You dont belive on news, but RE is already facing downcycle. Home loan requirement is almost less than 20 – 30%. In Delhi DDA is going to sell flats almost in half of the price than builders. "I think all the people in this thread are the one who is looking to buy a house and peanuts with compare to builder." – You are right that the buyers are peanuts compared to the builders. But if the peanuts are not going to buy the flats then to whom they are going to sell it and how long?

  384. Dear Ranjeet, I don’t believe on any comments unless he/she buys a house for himself/herself and come up with the numbers. And how the heck anyone can predict what builder is going to do in future. (I am talking of big builders).  I think all the people in this thread are the one who is looking to buy a house and peanuts with compare to builder. So don’t proove your point by providing some baseless comments. OK… DAC

  385. Dear DAC, After reading comment of Jayesh what is your next strategy to hipe the rates?

  386. Vision : Curbing Speculation in Real estate Mission : New land usage rules to be implemented Guiding principles : Currently there exists 60-70% speculation in RE and most plots are still not utilized but still new layouts are coming up. For residential plots : Plots within city corporation limits should be utilized with 3 years of purchase. Failing so,should attract atleast 5% of guidance value per year. If selling before 3 yrs, seller will have to pay 10% of guidance value during registration. Industry plots ( SEZ ) : If allocated land for specific project is not used as per the project plan within stipulated timeframe, land should be repossessed and allocated to other projects, also penalty to be imposed. Industries, shouldnot be allowed to use this as landbank investment. New Land acquisition norms : Compensation should be given to the real farmers, being displaced by a project. Real farmer should be determined based on longevity of ownership of the land. A speculator buying a land just to sell at a higher price at a later stage should be given only the registered price of land and maybe bank interest for the holding period. ( 80% of land is owned by speculators around the airport and not the real farmers. Also most land purchased in and around bangalore / mysore is not cultivated for last 2-3 years, if this continous no doubt food prices will go up even higher ) Why we need this : – To reduce Speculation from existing 70% to managable percent. It is known , more the speculation, more the volatiliy and more the cost of doing business for the real end user. – Cost of infrastructure projects will come down , paving way for faster implementation. – With increasing costs, any social program announced by the govt will not see the end. With huge population , we cannot afford to have pure market driven economy. These days, even US is thinking of regulating speculators and for the a good reason. – Cost of housing is reduced and is affordable to common man – Especially with no controls on agri land, in long term cost of cultivating will increase and along with that food prices.

  387. Dear Ranjeet, Good News Guys for people who have not purchased flat I  frequently enquiring about the flat when ever i see hoarding or newspaper ad. I call up and get the details, last friday i got the call from the builder to whom i inquired earlier and he said "what decision you have taken to buy a flat". I replied rates are high and i expect the price to come down. he replied and said you please visit our place we will negotiate. i told but your price is to high and again replied we will do something, you come down to our office. I said ok and promised him that i will visit on sunday. Again i got the call on sunday by his senior person and forced me to visit his plase at that time i raised a question and said what the use of coming at your place your price is too high. for talking him for longer period i got the clue that he was ready to reduce the price upto Rs. 300 per sq ft. so it think builders are facing the heat and at any time its going to burst and all the builders will compete with each other. secondly if the builder is unable to sell the flat for 3 month his cost is going to increase by about 100 Rs. per sq ft and furthur real estate market is coming down so a rigid builder would make his cheek red on both side

  388. Hi Friends, This is really a good discussion, I have also booked flat at baner and was worried weather my decision is correct or not, after reading all comments and feedback from market, I agree with the point that for a genuin buyer any time is good time and looking at the rate of growth of Pune city, inflation rates will not drasically reduce theough there will not be much appriciation for investor. For genuin buyer ther is no point in waiting if they have their calculation and long term plan then go for it, only decide your requirements, study about project and area, negotiate well with buider, compare rates and take decision In my opinion rates will be steady for some time and will go up slowly as per infaltion. 

  389. Hi guys, I have been reading comments for a long time. I also wanted to buy a flat in central pune. I was expecting the prices will come down not drastically but atleast by 10 to 20%. this also counts a lot atleast for me. I am not very sure whether I am right or wrong. But after reading all the comments I came to the conclusion that I should wait for 2-3 months and book a flat at whatever price it is. If anybody can advice on that it will be good. I agree with both the thought streams 1. The demand is going to grow as the people migrating to Pune are not going to stop and bound to increase. They have to satisfy their personal needs. 2. At the same time if we see the current maket the share market is coming down like anything. IT companies are making less profit due to compition from china and other countries. As a result wedges of the IT professionals are going to be stagnant or initial compensation is going to come down. So effectively there should be correction in the real estate market. I am not a finance guy but these are the observations. I have not visited lot of builders or sites but only few selected sites. Can anybody tell me how much market correction is going to be whether in the range of 10 to 20% or more than that. I dont expect the market will come down to half or something like that. Please dont take this comment personally but these are my views. I also want to buy a house in poona so I am also waiting for the market to come down. AMP

  390. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    http://indianeconomy.org/2008/04/18/the-indian-real-estate-bubble-circa-2008/

  391. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    not @ 2450 / sq ft, but 2750 /sq ft.

  392. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Dear DAC, I was talking about Sukhwani’s Kingston Avenue, exactly near Wadhwani construction. If your friend want to really buy a flat, ask him to visit Sukhwani now coz his amenities are more than what Wadhwani is offering. I am telling this coz recently (4 months back) one of my friend has booked flat from Wadhwani @ 2450 / sq ft. 

  393. Dear Dont_buy_flats_in_pune, Could you please tell me the site name? This is excatly opposite what one of mine friend is telling. He went to visit Wadhwani consruction 2 weeks back and they were not ready to come down definitely not 400-500 rs / sq. ft less. Yes, market is not doing as good as 6 months back but that doesn’t mean that they will come down drastically and again I am taking about good area and project so don’t misunderstand it. Common yaar you visited the develpoing place when there is record breaking rain, so what do you expect? Tell me any place in india where you will see good roads. But this is the part of the development. BTW: For genuine user any time is a good time to buy the house. –DAC

  394. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Last Sunday I visited to some of the sites in Pimple Saudagar. 1. Price/sq ft - 3000-3200 (If I would have bargain, surely the price/sq ft might have been setteled between 2800-3000 which are the same rates which were before 6 months) 2. I asked how long these prices (3000-3200) will remain. Answer was atleast 2 months. Six months back the answer was the price may change tomorrow itself and it may increase 100/200 per sq.ft. 3. No roads. I stuck twice in the mud.

  395. Dear Maaz AKWhat is rent in Mumbai for 2BHK (in decent locality) and what is salary paid by companies to freshers?And the analogy tht u have put in is baseless. Let me tell u one thing. I came to Pune 8 years back as a fresher and was staying in Aundh in rented accomadaion for 5K as rent. The company still pays same salary to freshers but rent in Aundh has changes drastically. So what did people do …? They moved out of Aundh and started staying in Pimple Saudagar, Kalewadi, wakad, Pashan etc… So in short people move to other locality if they cant afford… Just like Mumbai where people travel from Virar to Nariman Point ..just to work… And Pune is following the footprint of Mumbai… So may be ..down the line people will travel from Talegaon or Chakan or Raj Guru Nagar to Hinjewadi for work…   Regarding the logic that I had put.. I just want to put few question & answer to make it more clear: 1. How old are you? Ans : 25 yers 2. Are u in shared accomadation? Ans : Yes 3. How long would u b in shared accomadation and why would u move out for independent accomadation? Ans : 3-4 years at max. Reason I may get married or my parents may join me in Pune after they retier. In any condition I will require an independent accomadation after few years. If I cant buy by that time then I would have to rent it out. I will not have any option then… :( Hope I made my points clear…. 2.

  396. Dear Pankaj, Do you think people will join pune’s company if the rent  in pune for a 2bhk is 20k . Freshers are not even paid 20k per month these days. Look boss if the rent is 20k than the avg sal should be minimum 50k. Is it possible?  think twice :) regards

  397. Hello, Sorry for the detour, but I had a question and wasnt sure where else to post it. I had recently purchased a flat in Pune which will be ready for handover in about a month. Its a 3  bed 3 bath apt close to Aundh on Baner Pashan Link Road. I wanted to rent it out , but have no idea of a reasonable rent in that area for a 3 bed 3 bath apt. Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks

  398. You know what….Prices for resedntial area will go down bt not much and it will be for very short duration. Reason why I am saying this is that… there are more than 1 Lac young people are working in Pune are staying in shared accomadation with age range of 24-28. And sometime in future they will seperate out and look for their individual accomadation(for their personal reason such as getting married or wahtever). How will they get the house… either they have to rent it out or buy… Who will rent out? So someone will buy house either to rent or for self. In addition to this there will be new recruits joining IT & ITES companies. Plus auto insudtry and other industry. Do u really think that demand will go down? Its a necessasity yaar… Will u pay rent of 20K after two year for 2BHK? That time u will buy house …

  399. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Ok. Ok. Cool down man :). Take it easy. But dont you agree that its speculation and greedyness of the builders/agents/promotors. And how long its going to last, just till then when there would be no demand. And when the demand will be in place if it fits in your budget. When it will fit in your budget when you do have that much income/salary. How many people have more than 50K (in hand) monthly income? Event 50K is too less for such a huge inflated cost and increased interest rates. If a common man is earning around 15-25K per month (I belive that it might be less than this), how much he/she can afford as an EMI. Then from where your demand is coming from out. These are the artificially inflated/speculated prices.  And what areas you are talking about? Aundh, Koregaon Park, Bavdhan, Kalyaninagar. What you really find there other than ear breaking pee pow horns, road blocking cars here and there, garbage, and Cab drivers spitting gutkha everywhere on the road. Ofcource you will get some malls and hi-fi hotels as well, but what about the cost that you spend there? You wont find a good road to reach at your home/society. If this is the base for price increase then who the hell is willing to buy flats in such areas, better we invest money in small cities and leave in a bunglow. So the bottom line is demand will last till there are customers and customers will be there if it fits in their budget :)

  400. Dear chinawal, Can you please tell me the location where the prices in Pune has been reduced as compare to last year. I know some of the good areas in Pune where rates were in the range of 2000-2500 rs per sq. ft which are now in the range of 3200-3500 rs per sq. ft. so even if it comes to 25% (which is the max one can expect ) people are still in profit. Don’t you understand the simple math? I don’t understand why you guys are taking anyones comments negatively. That itself tells your frustation that you are desperate to buy a house and can not afford it. I can understand you guys. But sorry this is the fact. And I am not the builder but I have  bought a house for myself in pune in FEB 2007 and to tell you the fact if the price went down even by 25%, I will have a profit of well margin. So it’s upto you guys……..to clear you all if you are a genuine buyer and find a house at a location where you think that demand and supply will be the constatnt in future, the chances of price reduction is very very less. So it’s up to you. –DAC

  401. Dear Maaz AK, 1) Are you the filthy greedy builder? >> NO 2) Do you how many shops are under to-let in koramangala Bangalore? >> I was writting about Pune only and that too resedential properties 3) For rest of your questions >> I was saying that if you are a genuine buyer and find a house at a location where you think that demand and supply will be the constatnt in future, the chances of price reduction is very very less. –DAC 3)

  402. Dear Dac… Are you the filthy greedy builder? Do you how many shops are under to-let in koramangala Bangalore? Do you owners are proposing new lease deals to attract people? Do you know more than the builder the AGENTS are profiting and becoming rich? Do you know how many house constructions are halted because people are thinking twice before asking for the second installment from the bank?  A owner had come to me and requested me to take his 2 bedroom (under construction) house for lease for a period of three years. The lease amount is 5 lacs which is fully refundable after three years. People want money without interest. So do people wants to buy house and pay for the house not the banks. Better not buy any house at this time.  

  403. Dear Ranjeet, What you said is 100% correct. Mr. DAC is himself is builder/promoter/invester/paid by builders. I was also doing analysis from last year & noticed that  many places in pune the rates are same or reduced compare to last year & this has been confirmed by the friends who have bought the flats in those areas. They told me that after one year they couldn’t  getting the  same price instead getting offer of less price. So Mr. DAC, where is your analysis. I wonder Mr. DAC is a hired person by Mr. Lalitkumar Jain, the biggest greedy builder in the universe. Genuine buyers pls have patience.

  404. Dear DAC… I made my comment on Last Dec. b4 6 months back…. not b4 one year…. And understand the thing that I commented first on mkt bubble, @ the time when nobody was thinking abt decline in real estate rates… Increase ur analytical skills or keep patience…. Dont play with genuine buyer’s money….though u may have vested interests….

  405. Dear Dac… I think u may be one of the builder or contractor who had invested lot & could not able to recover the same due to sleepy market…. There are so many days remaining to complete august….. I think u never read all newspapers & TV channels…. The signs are near for bubble…. Another thing is that b4 one year Stock Mkt is abt 20,000 Today reached 15k…. Its speculation…. Wait for one week… & mark the sensex decline….. Correct ur misunderstandings about basic socio-economic factors…..

  406. Dear Dont_buy_flats_in_pune, I don’t believe on news and newspaper articles as I have been seeing articles @slowdown and against slowdown. But the fact is that if you are genune user and want to buy a house in a good location, the chances of prices go down is very very less. I have seen this and doing my study since from last two years. I know some of the areas in Pune where price never went down in last two years. -DAC

  407. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Dear DAC, Its very unfortunate that you might not be going through news and newspaper articles. They are clearly mentioning that "A slowdown is bound to occur" and "Indian Real Estate is in its bubble phase".  Probably the investors who has invested may loose more than the genune buyers, coz genune buyers have options whether to buy or not, but those who has already invested will have to pay to banks now in four folds. Please pay attention on those news which clearly says that for a loan of 25L, the customer has to pay more than 76L/1 Cr. Enjoy your EMI repayments till the bubble bursts :).

  408. Dear Ranjeet, At last your AUG month came and I see SENSEX touching to 15K. So who is dreaming…………me or you? :-) :-) :-) I feel bad about you but don’t worry I can understand you. But anyways hard luck but don’t loose hopes you can keep waiting till AUG 2009 as what you have been doing since AUG 2007. Any comments from you on your prediction are welcome and please if you don’t know anything stop misleading others.  –DAC

  409. Your analysis convinces me to postpone my decision to buy a flat and i completely agree with a gent in this trail who says its better to live on rented houses in metro cities and retire into a small town and buy an affordable home there. Here is another dynamics which many of you are probably familar with with respect to the biz dynamics. A builder buys a plot of land in a city outskirts say for 5 crores. He then announces a host of developments happening around this piece of land..bridges coming up, railway lines,metros, highways, hospitals et al and usurps the price of his land to 30 Crores in a jiffy. To prove his point, a few bogus deals also happen. Now he mortgages this 30 crores piece of land to the Bank to borrow and build. A significant portion of this money is used for buying another "strategic piece of land". This cycle continues. No prizes for guessing that this model is bound to fail at some point. Super profits accrue during the initial years ..but the story cannot sustain for long. Therefore..its not about scarcity of land and all that..its also about sustainable business model based on an affordability..not jus greed.

  410. Suddenly the prices in North Bangalore have gone up. A 30*40 site 35 km from bangalore city was advertised for 8 lacs And now the same site is advertised for 15 lacs. I don’t know what to trust. Is it just the hype that the developer wants to create?  or the prices really increasing.  I’m confused man! Somebody suggest me. Is it the right time. regards

  411. Dear Jayesh , The decision you had taken is very correct one. I assure you that u will get 3 BHK at the same price of 1 or 2 BHK within the very short span…. Ranjeet

  412. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    source: Saturday Dailay Sakal 1. Prices may cut down upto 20-30% within coming 6 months.  2. Lots of ads with "READY POSSESSION" 3. Share market may touch the low – 10,000.

  413. These builders are still cheating people. I see a number of apartments unsold and none of them is occupied. But when you go to ask them, They say they only 2 flats left. I asked them, The apartment is already completed ready to occupy but where are the people’s. They say most of them are NRI’s and they come once in a year. i inquired with the neighbor who was a aged man, He was scolding the builder, " I advice him to reduce the rate but he won’t listen, Now all his apartments are unsold. The old man also said, There was a bank notice for the builder and it looked very servere. My friends be patient, Don’t buy yet, Once the builders get notices from the bank they will gradually drop the prices to break even the loan they have taken from the bank. So have patience, don’t book any thing before Feb 2009 usually after 8 months since the notice the building will be seized by the bank have patience !!!

  414. Its very interesting topic and very much related to current plan to buy for a flat in pune, for last few months I have enquired so many builders just to get the information about their current price. I found only Rs. 200 has increased by few well known builders  and many of them are quoting the same for the past 6-8 months. Except Nanded City where i found it started at 2750 and now quoted aroung 3300 and also i came to know that already 3000 flats have booked i don’t know what would be the real figures. After reading all the comments i would decide not to buy a flat now wait for six more months I Thankyou you everyone for their valuable opinion Jayesh Shah

  415. Dear Dac, See my comment in last Dec & Just see this as on 15.07.2008 SENSEX12676.19-654.32NIFTY3861.10-178.60DJIA11055.19-45.35NASDAQ2212.87-26.21RS/$42.82-0.10 Dont dream more… Just study more to make correct prediction….. Pune’s real estate is driven by the motive Investment & return ONLY…. Same trendline u can see  in REAL ESTATE also….. keep patience

  416. DEAR DAC,

  417. For all the analysis that’s being written everywhere, there are a few simple truths that can’t be refuted:- 1. I am perhaps amongst the top 5% of the 106 Crore people in the country as far as my income goes (Rs 50,000/- pm). In my late 30’s now, I can not buy a barely decent flat in a metro (even third rate ones like Pune) for it means losing my savings (about 20 Lacs) and also losing my life to EMIs till I retire. Just a flat to show at 60 with no savings whatsoever? Its scary. 2. When I look around the city I live in, there are a huge number of brand new towers in all sorts of obscure places and with imaginative names…60% of the houses are vacant. You can make out when you see no clohtes hanging out to dry in the day, no lights switched on at night. 3. The infrastructure (traffic, roads, water, electricity, pollution etc) sucks. 4. Things have become terribly expensive (not just petrol but school fees for the kids too). 5. Salary hikes (if they are occuring) are meagre compared to costs. 6. My stocks, mutual funds and FDs are all giving negative returns. 7. A 70,00,000/- Lac flat gets you a rent of 15,000/- pm in Delhi. That’s 2.6% per annum as per my calculator if you’re not paying taxes. Will it double to become 1,40,00,000 in six years? I doubt it. If it does, who will buy it? Moreover, who will buy thousands of such houses in each city? 8. I don’t see any NRIs who have returned back in my city to live in those 1 Crore flats. All one meets is people migrating abroad. If this appears normal to some of you, I have nothing more to say. If this is what most of you feel like…I think we’ve reached the edge of the cliff.

  418. I am an NRI from Australia with long and regular connection with India, UK and Australia.I have seen the rise and fall of Australian & UK real estate cycle twice.Those cycles have/had the same characteristic as what is happening in India (Except India is more aggressive)Both equity and real estate Cycle in Australia is about a 7-8 year cycle. India seems to have longer Cycle 10-12 year.As an economist and a property owner in India and abroad – all I can say is what is happening in India is extreme greed and speculation – This illogical and unsustainable. I love to see my property value go up but in a sustainable level and in tandem with macro economy.I have seen dealers entering in to AGREMENT OF SALE and then trading it to third party for a huge profit.POWER OF ATTORNEY DEALS are often used by these traders as well.I have seen uneducated brokers/dealers earning up to one crore in 1 year by SWITCHING couple of properties.I haven’t seen any market in the world that is so untransparent.SPECULATION IS THE NAME OF THE GAME IN INDIAN REALESTATE MARKET.I was quoted 1C for a property in Chennai in Dec07 and again the same property (Unsold) in March 08 was quoted 1.3C and now in June the same property (Unsold) he is quoting 1.5C in June 08The vendor has not sold the property in the past 6-8 months how ever he did not fail to increase the asking price by about 30% every 3 MonthsAs a owner of properties in India, I am saying it is not sustainable.One buy great Properties In SYDNEY and MELBOURNE cheaper than Indian cities(5 metros),Sydney and Melbourne’s average Income of a Clark, Cook or a taxi driver is about 25 Lacs p/a and a average 2BR flat with 10 -15 Kms to the CBD is about Rs90 lacs. Greed and speculation will end in pain and COMMONSENCE WILL PREVAIL.If not 1997 EastAsian economic crisis (Thailand,Malaysia,Indonesia etc) will be repeted in India with a devaluation of rupee followed by inflation linked economic meltdown which would take 10 years to get back on feet.

  419. A few more points If I may add to above- 9. It is true that the population density of India is much higher than USA. But, when you compare New Jersey and India – New Jersey is actually slightly more densely populated. And New Jersey is much more densely populated than Haryana, India. 10. Also one may keep in mind the average per capita income is far low when compared to those in india. Commonsense tells us that this means only a handful of those population hiking the density of population can afford to buy land. Thus speculators have hiked the price of the land for personal gains and in the process the number of people able to afford the high premium price for land has sunk. Will such a bubble of rosy growth in real estate last long? 11. Issue of regulation and availability of land are intermixed – real-estate is regulated in India with laws that prevent easy buying and selling and land records that are poorly maintained. This simply means that the prices can be artificially inflated in the near term (that could last several years) but in the long-term must return to rational values. If u r a speculator and want to be in market for short time to make money over middle class miseries then create such artifical hype and hike in price in short term making hay while sun shines… sooner than later the rest of the buyers can see through the hype or the price act as deterent to shy away leading to price tumbling down before it is reasonable again to pick up and climb another set of speculation ladder [ even among us lets admit it there are many speculators who buy house not just for personal need.] 

  420. Hi All  I have been reading all the interestig POV( point of views0 made here. I’m not a finance guy who can make great forecast on future But I  base my views on pure commonsense and reasons 1. Land scarcity in India and rise of middle class in india with greater liquidity to spare has been driving real estate and will play a great role in long run in future ( as Indian population wont come down and land wont increase in india unless we dry up sea or invade burma, pak, bhutan or even bangladesh and kill the existing population there :)…) 2. Government’s attempt to hike interest rate is to take away that liquidity from the buying class ( not HIG who dont care for the amount they invest for luxuary home) Inflation has already taken away a great part of surplus an average middle class could save. So Ranjit’s ( and others )prediction of weakening real estate does make logical sense. 3. Real estate Price in india in general will see a low in 2008-2009 ( as double figure inflation and oil price hike are here to stay or even rise in next 12- 24 month…Not my views but those of finance ministry officials) 4.  I can see the indications in IT hub cities like bangalore where a big real estate builder with a lot of projects is selling his flats at 22-30 lac and to lure buyers offering 1200 sq ft plot near mysore highway free plus 2 lac worth furniture free plus 50 yr warranty on building plus 20 year free maintainance… Sounds too good to be true, isnt it but I have been contacted by the builder a number of times.} 5. But it is wise to be realistic- u wont sell flats at throwaway price if u were a builder and wish to be in business… So what they do ( even DLF and other mega playesr doing doing the same) is delay the project till the profit margin are again suitable for them. They end up holding a lot of empty flats as inventories based on the logic that as the number of people’s salary goes up and they seek flats in scarcity they will be willing to pay a premium. 6. Remember these builders had bought the land at a premium, cost of steel rods, cement etc has gone up as well. So if they dont sell at a hike price for profit it doent make business sense to be in business. 7. But then there are a lot more jokers into speculations business turning themselves as fly by night real estate… For them profit is selling small chawl made of inferior materials at a market price with lot of ifs and buts. These jokers laugh all the way to the bank by sucking us the middle class. They pressure the guilable buyers with false info and offers like offer valid for two days only etc or even create artificial hype with their own people possing as buyers in front of you. When things dont suit them they may just delay the project year after year or do a hodini’s vanishing act one fine day. 8. There will be demand for Pune and Nagur as Mumbai is over saturated… but then for that to take place big companies need to move away from mumbai in large numbers A boeing base here an air port there or a few small regional office here may only generate speculation in short term. You end up with flats remaining unsold begging to be sold…and advertised time and time again…   My question is to all readers -A)  Since timing real estate is difficult and rents are low should one buy a house now at a premium now or wait for the overheated market to cool off a bit by year end 2008 or even mid of 2009? a couple of 100 less per sq ft does make lot of economic sense to an average middle income group B) What are your views / take on Nagpur or portion of nagpur’s real estate? Warm rgds   

  421. I dont see any possibility of slowdown of real estate prices. I found some of the reasons from Indian Industry Facts & Trends.India’s Real Estate sector is expected to grow at a compounded annual growth rate (CAGR) of 30% in the next 5 years to $50 billion from $12 billion currently. Housing requirement in India at 80 million units over the next 15 years. Office space required in India at 200 million square feet over the next five years. Overseas funds announced so far for investment in Indian real estate: about $7 billion. Foreign Direct Investments (FDIs) in the sector in last 12 months: $600 million. Expected FDIs in the sector expected to touch $15-$16 billion by 2012. Largest Real Estate Initial Public Offerings (IPO) by DLF Ltd for $2.4 billion oversubscribed more than two times; Market capitalisation $23 billion. With all these substances, what I can conclude is the properties market will behave like saturated for quite a while untill it gets another lift like it got in 2006. Please correct me or comment if I am wrong.

  422. Dear DAC, YOU DONT HAVE  TO WORRY ABT THAT… WAIT & WATCH… KEEP PATIENCE…..

  423. Dear sir,I have just located a Independant house measuring about 1000sft(20×50)at Banaswadi in Blre for Rs. 33 lacs and planning to take a hsg loan. Today, RBI hiked the rates and subsequently all interest rates will go upwhich may dampen real estate market.Do u advise us to go for a property purchase thro loan at this critical timeor stop it ?As such, I afraid1. the property price may go down in a near future in lacs from today’s rate for     which i will be paying loan….am i correct?2. I will be paying higher interest amount for 33 lacs…..which may not surpass rent 6000 pm.Should we drop the idea of buying house now? Then, when we shall reconsiderthis house purchase.Pl guide . selva

  424. Dear sir,I have just located a Independant house measuring about 1000sft(20×50)at Banaswadi in Blre for Rs. 33 lacs and planning to take a hsg loan. Today, RBI hiked the rates and subsequently all interest rates will go upwhich may dampen real estate market.Do u advise us to go for a property purchase thro loan at this critical timeor stop it ?As such, I afraid1. the property price may go down in a near future in lacs from today’s rate for     which i will be paying loan….am i correct?2. I will be paying higher interest amount for 33 lacs…..which may not surpass rent 6000 pm.Should we drop the idea of buying house now? Then, when we shall reconsiderthis house purchase.Pl guide us.selvanayagi09972366715

  425. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    Hmm..But the above link shows data from Jan to Mar 2008. Just 15-20 days ago I went through an Article (I dont remember the daily’s name, probably it was in Pune Mirror), which mentioned that the registration has slowed down from April and approximately 15-20% registrations were less than those done till Mar 2008. Again ..just 2 days ago CNBC Awaz reported that there is slowdown in real estate and there are no customers to buy flat, some of the builders from Mumbai had a meeting in Lonawala and decided that they will try to maintain the rate till Dipawali, but some of them who cant sustain more has started selling the flats on lower cost.  And todays news which I read in Daily Sakal says, RBI has increased its repo rate and home loans would be costlier, so again lesser buyers. I suggest keep on saving and wait till then you will be able to pay the EMI without tension. Dont buy tension and keep paying for it :)

  426. Dear Ranjeet, I have been waiting for Aug 2008 as what you said in your previous thread. But for your kind information please go thorugh it http://www.business-standard.com/common/news_article.php?leftnm=10&bKeyFlag=BO&autono=325792 Buyers, if you need a house for yourself do not wait ……..buy it. As an investment i don’t know…… Thanks, Dac

  427. If it is for your need then buy it. I would say if it is an investment don’t go for it. Oil prices are going up………share market is not doing good…..so it would not be wise to invest in real estate now

  428. Hey guys I have decided to buy a flat in pune. please advice me whether I should buy a flat right away or should wait for a month or so.

  429. Oil prices are rising…. Stock market is declining….. Only 50% new flat agreements are registered in 2008 as compared with that of last year…. go & check it from district office…. Be ready for Big Bubble to REAL ESTATE MARKET…………….

  430. Dear It is very interesting to here the individual opinions. In Andhra Pradesh (especially in Hyderabad), the Government started selling the land at very high cost. This has triggered escalation of land prices in and around Hyderabad. Again, while going individual houses or apartments costing Rs 50.00 lakhs and higher in Hyderabad is OK and the returns expected in the form of appreciation and rent is good. A double bed flat will get rents ranginf from Rs 8,000 to 12,000 in decent areas and people (IT) can affort to pay the rent. But the cost of the aprtment/houes in 2nd tier cities like Viskhapatnam, Vijayawada, Guntur is as equal as in Hyderabad. But one can not expect a rent not more than 4,000 for a double bed room. Is it worth investing for such paltry returns? Regarding appreciation, how many new families shit to these 2tier cites? What are the employment oppuutunities created in these 2tier towns and what is their average monthly salary (Rs 10,000?) . Coming to the cost of apartment, the builders says the major contributor for escalation is cost of land. (Rs 15,000 to 20,000 per sq.yd in prime areas). Once Government involves in statblization land prices (by not selling at sky rocketing prices, giving land to societies at subsidised prices for construciton 0f colonies) the cost of housing will come down. velugu

  431. The “Black Money” factor is one very important factor in the Indian scenario. As we all know, the actual price paid for a house is 50% (or more) underhand and paid in cash. This firstly makes the banks secure. Unlike the US, people can’t just walk away from their home loans regardless of how high the interest rate or how worthless the property coz for a 50 Lac loan they’ve got their own 50 Lac of black money stuck. Secondly, this will slow down the bubble’s bursting. Obviously people will hold on to the straws till they absolutely drown. Thirdly, I think gradually as demand plummets and the appreciation vanishes – we will have many people drowning due to an increasing loan repayment burden, higher costs of living (courtesy inflation, oil) plus a lack of buyers on whom they can offload this (non performing) asset. For those who sink…it will be a life’s savings lost. Much worser then the US considering you lose all your black money too and nobody cares about that coz its not there to be seen! For those who survive…still negative or zero returns on the 1 Crore 3 BHK.

  432. Very interesting thoughts from the originator and others who have been commenting. No one is really buying. I think we need to wait a while for the mafia to self-destruct.

  433. I have been following the real estate forums intently. Few collated truths in point form below…………… 1. Prices are artificial (never thought Gurgaon/Pune will be as expensive as US/UK) 2. Only a miniscule 1 or 2% of the population can afford these houses. 3. Those who get caught in this trap and buy a 50 Lac pigeonhole on the city fringes are consigned to a life of endless EMIs. Maybe we’ll soon have the Japanese model wherein you can pass it on to the kids coz the extended repayment periods (courtesy rising interests) will outlive you. 4. Appreciation is over if you buy now. If you think your 50 Lac thing on the outskirts with no proper road and water/sevage/security is going to become more expensive then a mediterranean villa in 5 years….it will be a miracle. Yes….anything can happen in India. When you have a large population, you also have a proportionatly large number of fools. 5. You can’t get a loan / tax rebate for paying rent. You got to pay it out of your salary. So rents will continue to be a paltry few thousand, even if your 2BHK is of half a crore or two crore or ten crore. And a few truthful fantasies in continuation…………… 6. How many houses will an NRI / Businessman / IT Professional Buy want to buy? Two, Three, Five….maybe Seven?? When all those many houses are constructed and sold (and these many are being built all around us)….but what then? Will we have ghost towns? Empty townships with no residents but empty 1.5 BHKs worth 1 crore each? 7. Has anyone thought about socio-economic fallouts? Middle class salaried families turning naxalites? When you can’t even buy a decent house when the economy is booming, would you not want social justice? 8. A long term cycle like Nepal? A revolution?

  434. Hi Folks Abt me: I am an NRI and have invested in sites in bangalore and pune in early 2000’s. In early 2000’s I had some extra cash and wanted to invest in India I went and bought a site in or around bangalore. many of my friends and colleagues in the same boat did the same thing in the neighborhoods they are from. Our research showed that india was on a growth path and real estate in the long run would do very well. My friends and cuzs who were DINKs in india did the same too. Bought some property when they saved up enough over a few years. Those were the days when u could buy some land or a good apartment for 10-15laks tops. What played out was well beyond our wildest dreams and defies all rationality out there. Speculation went rampant after and we are talking crores these days. Trust me I know enough NRI’s in US and canada to tell you this “no NRI has this kind of money available freely to afford properties in the first and second tier cities”. The only NRI’s who still got money available are the ones from the middle east since the oil prices are high. Even they are thinking twice now. Talking about IT people driving prices is a total BS. All my friends more or less make the same kind of money all over india. Even DINK’s are having tough time affording something decent in and around bangalore. The IT folks from the 90’s had it good. What has happened is pure speculation based increase in prices and no proper way to monitor the ups or downs in the prices. In US I can go pull a report that tells me how a neighborhood fared the last year are the prices up or down. In india there is no transparency. So none of us know if the number of transactions went up or down or the same. The biggest reason I believe why the prices went up so much is black money. In bangalore i have heard about transactions which are 50/50. That means anyone who makes money the easy way will end up investing in real estate since there is only so much u can stash in the house and not worry abt being raided. No other transaction opens up for investing this kind of money. In the 1990’s indias real estate was underpriced today I strongly feel it is overpriced. I can buy a beautiful condo/flat in florida or chicago as a vaction property which is a lot cheaper than a flat in bangalore for example. That doesnt mean much from an investment perspective since there is no growth in the economy out there. On the other hand india still has plenty of room to grow. Inversely people in US make more money than people in india so go figure. The only reliable stats I have which interests me is the ownership level in india is way low in the range of teens. So this will have to go higher but at these prices I doubt that will happen. I have followed indias economy closely for the last decade and it follows the us at a lead by two years. So if that still holds which I think it is there is should be a significant slowdown in india soon since US started slowing in mid to late 2005 all the way till 2006, 2007 and underwent a significant correction in late 2007 early 2008. So india should correct by a good 20% by the end of 2009 tops. If that doesnt happen which it may not since there is so much growth the prices might stay stagnant for a few years before it starts growing again. But dont expect real estate to be the greatest investment in ur future. If u need a house badly buy one if not rent. Rent is so cheap that I am shocked why more people even think of buying. Dont try to time the market since almost all get it wrong. One last thing in the long run real estate will always go up. long run is 15 to 20 yrs. so if u keep the house for that long u will not lose ur money. All those complaining abt how expensive it is for the middle class remember ur parents were in the same boat. 40k rupees 30yrs ago was a fortune the way 40lakhs is today. It is called being in the middle class. Means u live on a month to month paycheck with very little money left to splurge on other stuff. Our parents did it and so will you if you want a house.

  435. Hi All, Very mush interesting discussion, I want to add some important information, all who are going to book flat and go for agreement please think 10 times before doing so, because once you book flat and decide to cancell/change arear etc., bulder takes you for ransome as he will not refund your entire amount, also you will have to forgo registration and stamp duty charges Regarding decision of buying, I agree on point that if you are going for first house which is your need, then do not wait much as things are not going to change much also you loose opprtunity of getting good location and age also catches up, which leads to low risk taking ability Consider flat which is affordable, good to stay, if required easy to rent out and easy to sell if required Common Regards Common man

  436. Have been trying to read a lot about who actually is buying these houses? I think I am one of those oft quoted middle class (an annual income of about 5 Lacs) that is supposedly driving this boom. But fact is I haven’t bought a house yet. Some hard facts which steeled my decision were:- 1. Upto mid 2007 – I had stayed for 5 years in Delhi in a centrally located place (Vikas Puri), paid a rent of Rs 5,500/- per month for a 2 BHK with abudant parking space and facing a big park. The house owner proudly claimed its market value was about 1.5 Crores (must be 3.5 Crores now!) Surely a very poor return for money he got. But then this man had bought it way back in 1980 for less then 10 Lacs. 2. I booked a “builder floor” in Delhi around early 2006. The builder was into buying houses, demolishing them and rebuilding into floors. I booked the first floor of a 4 storey construction (90 Sq Yd) for 16.5 Lacs in Uttam Nagar. This was in mid 2006. Then the boom accelerated by end 2006…they said it was now worth 25 Lacs. The builder got greedy, slowed construction and all the related tricks. I finally took his offer to take double my deposit and quit. The house still isn’t sold. Its mid 2008. The builder is bankrupt and has fled. The story is repeating in the entire area. 3. I came to Pune. The traffic was horrible, the pollution worser, the cost of everything was three times what it was in Delhi starting from fruits to furniture. The houses were also as expensive! Far flung outskirts, no electricity or water….but lot of nice morphed photos and glossy brochures…and the usual promise of once in a lifetime investment opportunity. Everyone said it was the IT. 4. Then I met an IT graduate (the city is called the Oxford of the East)…this guy told me that offer letters handed out after Campus interviews had joining dates six months later and very few got actual confirmations. Half the guys didn’t even get interviewed. Some smaller institutes didn’t even get visited by the industry. Also, this was in sharp contrast to last year when almost everyone got a job. So it isn’t the IT anymore! 5. Lastly, I went to a small town in MP. This one was untouched by builders. An empty 200 Sq Mtr plot with a tube well (at least ground water supply assured), stable electricity supply and in a well developed area on the outskirts was quoting for Rs 75,000/-. The airport at Bhopal was 20 Kms away, the railway station the same. That was what I used to travel in Delhi or Pune too! The vegetables and fruits were half the price in Delhi and one quarter the price in Pune. Full time domestic help was available in plenty at as low as Rs 1000/- pm. The schools were roughly the same standard but charged one tenth what similar schools charged in Delhi and Pune. What did I conclude? Stay on rent in a big city while you work (remember Delhi @ Rs 5,500/- ….and dropping). Build yourself a nice palatial bungalow in a small town and relax there once you retire. The amentities (hospitals etc) are still as closeby as in a metro or worst case you can fly down to Delhi for Rs 3,000/-. Compare that with buying a 1 Crore designer flat adjacent to a slum (or a suburb 60 Kms away from city centre) and paying all your salary as EMI all your life. Bottomline is…..either it crashes, else I am not buying!!

  437. It guys please wake up to these rogue builders.

  438. Dont_buy_flats_in_pune

    We need to spread message in the IT industry not to pay such huge amounts for such flats/row houses which are worthless. Let them go ahead who dont care about their hard earned money.

  439. Pune bubble is bigger then US and its a massive fraud fuelled by ignorant IT folks and builders with more IQ then these nerds. Shanties selling for prices at which you can buy a huge beachside villa abroad in a small town. The construction quality is pathetic and infrastructure is zilch. Pune traffic sucks…if ur staying on one of those fringes deemed as the new hotspots, you might as well apply for leave when you want to come to MG Road. I’ve been in Pune recently…same old morphed photos on the hoardings showing lots of trees and butterflies and cute kids with smiling couples ….on ground just a hell hole where you can’t even see the sky and where there is no proper approach roads or electric supply. One particular thing called “River View” really fascinated me….the so called river is actually a stinking drain….mercifully it was not visible from the apartment but the stink was there. Only fools would invest here.

  440. Hi all, Here is my experience of Pune market. I am in UK and have been looking for a row house in/near pune since early 2007. I was astonished to get a quote of 88 lakhs for a 3 bed row house near the high way. No proper road to the site – in the middle of barren land and no way near public transport/rickshaw stand. My father optly described it as nothing more than a glorified ‘chawl’ and advised against it. I am glad I did not go for it, as there are still some rowhouses available in the same scheme almost 12. I could not justify paying the premium amount for an area so far from city especially kowing that my friend brough a flat on S B road for 30 lacks about 4 years ago. The insfrastructure in wakad/baner does no comapre with that in central pune and still builder are asking for this sky high prices. Recently I was quoted 1 cr for a duplex flat in baner / wakad area. These prices are similar to prices in UK wherein I can buy a 1 /2 bed flat for similar price GBP 125K+ . Another buider with a coloful scheme near aundh bridge quoted me 3500 psf (whereas my colleague had booked the flat for 2800 ) only valid on the day, next day the rate went up by 50, by the time I left India (after 3 week holiday) the rate had gone up by 500 psf. The sales office was busy like a shop on Lakshmi Road during Diwali. We were waiting for atleast 30 minutes before someone could attend. I could see the saled staff presurring the buyer to book on the spot or loose the opportunity, people were making decisions on phone. Could now believe what I saw. I think us It lot is to blame for all this, IT people did not bother to check the prices and blindly paid whatever the builder asked for, the builders have got greedy and there is no rules/regulations to control. I have ended up buying a flat near chakan 2 bed for 20 lakhs and the prices has already gone up by 2 lakhs in 3 months. My advise – look for chakan area for 3 bed flat under 30 lakhs while it’s still affordable. Good luck.

  441. Investing & Passive Income

    since summer 06, prices in ahmedabad have doubled. i wouldn’t be a buyer at these prices!

  442. If you are looking out for new/resale apartments , please apply extreme caution, try and not to purchase apartments which have a loan. Before signing on the agreement find out from the pune corporation that the property belongs to the person who you are buying it from.Also find out whether the property is not on a controversial/illegal site. Do not I repeat do not care about jacuzzi,swimming pool,club house etc. Make sure that the building gets drinking water from pune corporation. I have been looking out for resale apartments in posh areas like sopan bagh etc and believe me they have all the luxuries but they do not have regular drinking water supply . I guess the builders expect people to drink water from the swimming pool (lol) As these resale apartments are primarily owned by investors who never bothered to find out whether there was proper provision for drinking water.THey just wanted to make a quick buck. Last but not the least the recent price hike (effective from 20-Apr-08) by builders is just a sham. I have been to a few projects and they are ready to give a discount of the same amount if they find you are a serious buyer. In effect they want to keep the prices at the inflated rate. (pehle thoda badake phir ghatake).Really cunning these builders are.

  443. It has been great reading this blog and the pragmatic comments made by everyone, I guess i have talking the same to just myself. I would want to admit property prices in pune are not realistic at all. At the prices what realty is quoting in pune/mumbai you would get a mansion in and around Dallas with lower interest rate, better construction etc etc. Based on my experience and what I have observed the builders in pune are not providing good construction quality at all and the prices they ask for amenities are all unjustified.Like for example a reputed builder in wakad offered me 2 options of 2BR one having normal bathroom and the other normal bathroom with shower curtain. The difference was 150 PSF. Do you think it is worth giving 150 PSF for a shower curtain , the best one which could get for like 100 USD. These are cheap gimicks and people get lured. I am an IT person worked with top IT company as well worked abroad but still prices in pune are not affordable. In the US with the sub prime crisis , the govt is trying hard with sops and options , do you think something like this could happen in swades. A loan of 35 or 40 lacs for 20 years resulting in EMI of INR 40000 per month is like a devil sitting for 20 years on the head. The IT story for india has been a success but you never know when the slowdown comes or job shifts occur or surprises spring out in the 20 years. Lets be practical, these prices are unrealistic even for the IT person and prices must correct by another 30%. It is better to buy land in lonavla, vadgaon, talegaon area and build a larger house than invest in pune at current rates. Go to any top IT company and ask how many people are ready to buy a house priced > 50L?

  444. I am agreed with this…… A worthless act by PBAP……… It seems to be Vinashkale Viprit Budhi….

  445. PBAP has increased rates by rs 400..This is a last attempt by Pune builders lobby to sell vacant flats.and instead of being rational , they have taken a ridiculous decision. Its time that a common investor in Pune awakens and stops buying flats from these selfish builders. The current rates are out of scope for the genuine buyer and with this new move , its going to be out of wven the dreams of anyone..as Atul said , let the prices increase at a fast pace , so that the bubble burst is steep and soon..what do these builders think , that everyone ( including the IT people ) are super-rich? if I pay 40,000 as EMI , there is nothing left to spend for daily survival. I see a lot of empty flats around Pune , and so the builder lobby is desperate to sell them off, so that it can finance their existing constructions.. but if no-one buys these flats , they will be choked.. pass on the message to everyone you know , to not buy flats in Pune..let the builders choke for a while..lets burst the bubble.

  446. Dear Friends, There is much confusion in everyone’s mind about the price of real estate. The very confusion is indicative of the speculative nature of putting money in real estate at present. People buy house for a variety of reasons and one should know WHY he or she is thinking about buying the house in the first place. Is it for saving on rentals, or for investment, or for earning second income, or for holidaying, or for securing the future of own or children? Once you are sure about the reason, then you have to think differently for different options. In the long run the property price will always increase. Occasional dips and peaks here and there is inherent to any form of investing. The problem is we get too carried away by the present situation, whether it be the situation of prices going rapidly high or prices falling rapidly. In my opinion investing in property should not be done for a short time horizon, one should set aside at least 6-7 years to be realistic. I remember an incident one of my elderly staff was narrating and I like to share with you. In 1989, a real estate developer advertised for a residential layout in a Chennai suburb. Price was Rs. 30K for a plot measuring 2400 sq. feet. My colleague felt it was too steep a price and he backed off. As more and more people started buying the plots from his office, he visited the builder again only to be told that the price has been increased to Rs. 45K per plot. It was a 28% hike in a short time. He did not have enough money to pay the amount. He was pestered by his wife to buy the plot and he returned to the same vendor next week. To his dismay, the developer had jacked up the price to Rs. 70K per plot! With only some 35K budget, he had no option but to settle for half a ground and his wife was wise enough to insist him for buying the plot even at that rate. It is roughly 18 years since the incident, and the current rate of property in the area my colleague mentioned is 1.2 Crore per ground! Now consider this – suppose due to some “market correction” (imaginary) the Rs. 70K price would have dropped to Rs. 50K, does it makes any difference compared to the price of Rs. 1.2Crore today? If you move up in the time horizon of say 15-20 years a small difference of 10% even 30% has no meaning. My advice to all is simple follow your real need and act accordingly. Don’t wait too long for price to correct, but never overstretch yourself. Remember, even with so-called sub prime crisis in the US, prices of property have not come down by 50%, may be 20% on an average.

  447. Hey Neil, would like to point out a teeny tiny thing out here, we are talking about Pune, India and not LA. And if you are not in Pune then you don’t know what the heck is going on. And everyone knows what is happening to the US real estate now. And most of the buyers are in Pune buy houses for staying in and not as a investment, so there is not point in thinking of appreciation, coz no family shifts from house to house just because their property value has appreciated. ————————- I am also of the belief that everyone (builders/investors)should make money. But they need to be realistic. Quoting fancy prices is going to do only one thing, EMPTY/UNSOLD apartments. The other VERY IMP point I need to highlight is that the quality of construction in Pune is of the utmost lowest quality. Compared this with mumbai and even a small time builder constructs a good quality house. Buyers/investors beware of the quality of construction in Pune before buying. Also speculators are going to have a hard time now because the Maharashtra Govt 2008 budget has done a reduction in the concession period for payment of stamp duty from the existing three years to one year in case of resale of property. This means that resale of a property within one year of buying it from a developer would result in the state collecting stamp duty only on the profit from the transaction.However, the benefit may not be much, since a sale within a year will entail higher capital gains tax which could be as high as 33%

  448. hi ranjeet……….. your knowledge bout the boom and drop in real estate is gr8……….. hey can you help me with some pain points of huge investors who have already invested into realty………….. Also with sum data that gives a CAGR of real estate market for the past 15 yrs…………. and also that clarifies bout the scene for the coming 5 yrs…………. I am on a project and this data can help many indians who are over confident bout their investments…………. hoping for a positive reply…….. thanks..

  449. Real Estate in India has only one way Up… Land is very scarce in India..I don’t agree to equation of 4 times of salary.Take a example of Los Angeles,which has median income of $50K..But average cost of real estate is around 500K…Take New york same thing..Take San jose same thing.. So I believe,in urban areas in India ratio will around 1 to 10 times of salary..Real Estate will not go up by 100% or 50% or 25%..but realisticly speaking 10 to 20% is possible.. This is Real estate and not a stock market..It takes lot of time for Correction..Remember in United States this kind of correction is happening after 16 years..since 1991.. So my advice to common people will be to go ahead and buy the real estate. People can take one of those equity loans to fund there lifestyle later once the home has appreciated.. Property are going up atleast for coming 5 years..!!!

  450. The opinion seems to be divided on whether a correction is round the corner or that prices will not drop. I fact there are those who say that prices may rise again after a couple of months. One does not really know whom to believe. However, it is true that advertisements for the same flats continue to appear for long periods and that some flats have been readvertised (in newspapers and property websites) at prices lower than those quoted earlier. A 1600 sq ft flat at Ravi Park (Wanowrie) had been advertised at Rs 58,00,000 in Dec 07. The same flat is now advertised at Rs 53,00,000. Is this a sign of things to come? A slowdown in the rate of increase of salaries and the overall economic slowdown seem to indicate that the real estate market must drop. PKG

  451. Hi All , This is really a very interesting piece of information.I read the comments from all of you. Vijay , I totally agree with you. I am working in IT and for the last two years trying to buy a decent flat at a decent price. And I cant get either. The construction quality is very bad , yet the builders are asking for 40lakhs. Isnt it ridiculous , that one ends up coughing out around 70 laks ( including interest on loan ) for such a pigeon hole. And after 20 years the value of the flat is not 70 laks and one has invested all f his youth paying huge EMI amount. Its a daylight robbery from the builders/brokers/politicians on the common mans hard earned money.. what I fail to understand is how can one earn for all these people leaving aside his own personal comfort? There is a huge correction expected in the real estate market. I am from Pune and can see the signs.The same advertisements from the last 4 months.. Rent at an all time low.. Ready possession flats in abundance.. It all points to one thing.. Rates will fall.. If they dont , I prefer staying in a rented flat my whole life than paying 35,000 per month for the next 20 years. If I pay that EMI , I would not get a chance to0 say ‘cheers’.. which I can say happily to everyone here , right now.. Cheers ..and pls unite against these selfish buliders..

  452. Guys you really scared shit out of me. I am thinking of buying a flat in Pune. Though I have been working abroad for last 6 years, shelling out 60 lakh for 3BKH (this is the price I am hitting evrytime I get info from developers)is difficult dicision. Nevermind… my thoughts on real estate markets are summerized below without any market research or analysis.. purely on my whimes. – I think slow down in real estate market is imminent and it might around the cornser if share market keeps nosdiving and oil prices high. – What the slowdown might mean… the demand for the houses will slow down significantly for sure. But that may not necessarily bring the prices down suddenly. – Prices might just hold on at the peak level and there will be fewer new project launched. The completion of project under construction may get delayed a bit (I don’t think we can really sue a builder for not giving possession on agrees date….. no legal basis known to me but I can do it myslef it comes that..). – If potential buyers (like me… I still consider myself one..at least so far) get lucky then probably we can get some reduction in prices. But might not be of astronomicical scale say 20 or 30 %. – Almost all bulders/developers (never mind if he tom,dick or happy) have made millions already and they alway sdo businees at customers money so the slowdown probably not affect them much or not at all. – This will affect resale market as the needy guys want to sale the hluse had to leave it at lower cost (I believe there willbe dent in this market also… means people will try to hold on their properties). Now the conclusion…..do not expect much price reduction.. but expect general slow down. If you want to buy a house for your immediate use (of course after possesiion) then go ahead and buy the house of your choice (do not get deterred by high EMI which you will be paying till you breath your last). For me …I want to buy a house for future use.. may be after 5 years… I am still considering to buy one and pay EMI (not for long though). Analyst and smart econmic thinker … please do not get upset with this baseless explaination. I can undert it and hope you will too. Regards Vijay

  453. Dear All, Market is crashing day by day. World economy stands at its danger point. Those who were claiming Indian Economy doesn’t have to worry about US recession, should give reasons for declining Industrial Growth in India from January to March as compared with same in the last financial year? Those who are clamining that the prices of their properties get doubled in last two years Should watch the pricing downward trend from the Month of May, 2008. An economist should not rely only on figures & analysis but should also insist upon socio-economic factors & human behaviourial patteren especially in countries like INDIA where economy roots in Beliefs & Values. Ranjeetsinh

  454. With sky rocketing prices, I really have one question coming to my mind. How the heck is a normal salaried person gonna be able to afford a house. Any apartment now costs upwards of 35 lakhs. Lets take the 35L figure and try to understand who would be able to afford the apartment. To get a loan of 35 L your salary has to be atleast 65 to 70 K per month. How many people in pune have a salary like that? NRI, Businessman invest in real estate purely for good returns (some buy it as a second home), but assuming if these investments are not affordable for salaried people to buy. These NRI, Businessman are gonna be stuck with these apartments etc. Everyone talks about IT boom and stuff like that. Once again how long does a boom last. The last IT boom started in mid nineties and crashed around 2000, it also took down the Real estate prices. Both these industries picked up around 2004. Now with the US sub prime crisis and volatility in the market I wonder how any industry is not going to be affected. Everyone keeps on harping that India is not dependent on the world for growth. Is it really true?, I mean how can we say that even if the world goes in recession we would stand out like a shining beacon.duh One question crosses my mind is that how many apartment are these IT folks/NRI/Businessman are gonna gobble up. I mean no matter how rich people are there is a limit in which they would be able to invest in…. Ashvin

  455. Jacob, Let me assume that your calculation is correct and u need to sell that house at 66L (purchased at 50L) to break even. Do u think its difficult? This is very much possible if you price of said property increses by 7 or 8% anually. Considering the past 8 years I see this very much possible. In year 2007 itself I have seen price growth of 40-50% in Wakad area. It may not be same in devloped area bt that basic condition for investment that u invest in upcomming area. So if invest in any upcomming area then no matter what happen u will get return better than 8%. Also I would like to point out that u need not pay tax on rent as definatly ur interest paid will exceed the rent recieved in that financial year. So u need not pay tax as you can show it as loss making investment for first 4 years. Also I think u can offset ur other income against this loss thus saving more tax. I hope i am clear what I intend to explain over here……

  456. Pankaj, Capital gains by selling apartment after 3-4 years is more complex. say one takes loan of 50L for 20 years @10.5%. After 4 years, s/he would have paid 20.3 Lakhs as interest and 3.66 lakhs as principal (because banks collect more interest than principal in the early years). And total EMI paid (sum of both the above) for 4 years will be close to 24 lakhs. If it was rented it out, let’s take income as 10 K per month(after maintenance costs and tax for rental income). For 4 years, it will be 4.8L. Now lets calculate for how much he needs to sell the apartment just to break even. (Loan closure amt + EMI paid till date) – Rental income (46.34L + 24L) – 4.8 = approx 66 lakhs. Now s/he needs to sell it for atleast 66 lakhs just to break even. If the person is a Resident Indian (not an NRI), then s/he can get tax incentives around 2.5 lakhs also (if in the higher income category…btw, the budget 08 made it even less attractive, as 30% tax only starts for taxable income > 5L).

  457. Jacob, I totaly agree with your formula of 3X or 4X of gross p.a. salary. The only thing I would like to add is in point 3. Please refer to my comment earliar where I think real estate price growth rate is more than bank’s intrest rate. So by creating arbitage position one can make money. Now since this is investment, one need not wait for 20 years. He/she can sell is after 3-4 years which will save capital gain tax as well. So for investment, one should buy property where maximum price rise is expected in term of percentage with outlook of 3-4 years.

  458. Salaried friends, “Affordability” is an important concept, which we overlook. Except for exotic places (like something overlooking an ocean and so on), in the long run, the price has to be justified by the local economy. In US, generally accepted affordable price for a residential place is 3 times the gross income. It went much beyond that in the past few years, and now we see the correction. For developing countries like India (where population is more and land is scarce), we can take affordability as 4 times the gross income. So if your gross income is 10 lakhs, your affordability is 40L max. Now tell me how many people in a city earn that much and a city where one can buy a good apartment for less than 40L. Is India overpriced? 1) Median income to median home price is absurd, as shown above (instead of 3x or 4x, it is may be more than 10x). Builders now proudly say that most of their buyers are in their twenties…Well, these buyers stretch themselves to the max, take a loan and buy the apartment, leaving no room for future expenses which comes with kids and their education, old parents, spouse deciding not to work for family reasons and so on. The EMI still has to be paid for 15 or 20 years. 2) Say you have 50 Lakhs cash and you buy an apartment for investment purposes. You may get a maximum rent of 12-15 thousand rupees per month (after maintenance expenses). If you put 50 lakhs in a safe Fixed Deposit at SBI (which now gives 8.75% interest), you will get around Rs 36000 in interest alone per month. Which means that the rental income does not even cover the interest given by a bank! Math shows that it is better to rent an apartment in India, than to buy. You will also get HRA benefit. 3) Got a 50 lakh loan at 10.5% for 20 years? At the end of 20th year, you would have paid the bank almost 1 crore 20 lakhs (not counting any tax benefits you may get). And when you sell, you are selling an apartment which is 20 years old. I am not saying the prices in India will come down. India is more complex, because real estate is the main avenue through which business people and govt officers(with bribe) make black money into white and also we have the huge imbalance created by NRI’s (who never live in that apartment). But in places where the local economy does not have high paying jobs, it has to come down in the long run. So if you are a salaried man or a women, let’s count the numbers and take only the burden which we can manage comfortably.

  459. One thing is for sure that the prices are going up because of agents or investors, because of which the real buyers are suffering. But one thing is for sure that the price hike is going to stop as the salary/income of the buyers is not getting increased in proportion of the greediness of the investors/agents. For evidance you can look into the daily news papers that the same ads are being displayed for more than a year. If someone is saying that demand is more than supply then why those flats are not getting sold within a month or two. A common man cant earn this much amount of money. Everyone should note that everybody comes under comman mans category except 5-10% people.

  460. Dear Ranjeet Do u have any evidance for what evevry u r telling so cofidently

  461. Dear DAC, You are free to take any decision at your own… Just ask me the same question on August,2008… This is the war between builder’s holding power & possible customer’s waiting power…..

  462. Ranjeet, Stop the crap….You have been telling things since last 3 months and nothing has been happend like that. I have seen the prices going up only. And even if we agree that prices will go down……what do you think? Would it go down by 30/40/50%? No way………I know one thing the more you wait more you will have to pay to buy the house atleast in Pune. I have seen in last 3 month’s itself the prices have gone up by 200-400 rs per sq. ft. and it is in vain to wail to see the downfall of 5-10% (may be).

  463. Well i keep seeing predictions about prices going down? how much of a fall would you anticipate??

  464. Anita, We got the flat in early 2007 (around March)in baner area closer to aundh when the sqft price was around 2700. ABout 2 weeks after we decided to buy the place, the builder raised the price to close to 3100 i guess and the latest i hear is that its over 3500 per sqft now. I dont know anything more since i have never been to this place. This apt will be handed over this march, so thats about close to a pear since we purchased it. Hope this was useful.

  465. Hi all… I am back again…. The analysis I made above on Dec,21 seems to be proven to be actual… Those who want to go in analytical should not book upto August,2008… The reasons are here… About 40,000 crores are raised by Indian real estate through IPO in the financial year 2007-08.. say about 65-70 % of total money raised through primary market… Out of which most issues were oversubscribed and real estate sector got a huge capital base… Now there is direct relationship between real estate price & stock market i.e. secondary market… how??? just look it by that way…. If stock market shows downfall from next months ( It already showing negative trends.. take example of Reliance Energy) then the real estate companies will find lack of working capital on the contrary if market goes up then prices will hit the market… It mostly depends upon the holding power of builders.. for how much time they can hold the investment… If this holding power will be snaped then prices will go down… Again IT sector is showing dawnfall…. The condition is worst than that of Dec,07… IF oil rates will show upward trend at international market then just ready to welcome the dawnfall in real estate… Again in puna supply is 140 % in year 07-08 i.e. absorbtion is nearly 65 %.. Those who r thinking rates will not get reduced just see the incidence of 2001-02 when rates were crashed due to IT dawnfall… Again if u look house as investment then just accept the upward & downward trends due to its directly connectivity with other sectors… Those who are waiting for aquitable price must adopt wait & watch policy… Again.. dont rush if rates will down by 200-300 fm may, 2008.. just wait upto dawnfall by 500-600 ( key areas are exceptional one)….. Any question or doubt???

  466. I have been analyzing this market in Pune for quite some time. I doubt if prices will go down. Regarding what u say that u earn for yourself and not for paying interest to bank. I think you don’t understand investment. Let say Bank gives you loan at 10% then you need to invest that amount in project where you expect minimum return of 15% p.a. This way u make 15% earning on ur investment and net 5% on money u have borrowed from Bank. Here is my case. In Dec 2006 I got loan of 26 Lscs from ICICI at 9.5% and booked a flat at price 1800/- in Wakad. My investment was 3 Lacs. Today its price is 2700/- or net worth has increased from 30Lac to 45 Lacs. Let say if I had not borrwod money from bank and would have invested my 3 Lacs in alternate medium then at max it would have been 5 Lacs (increased my worth by 2 Lacs). Here even after making all interest payment, my net worth has increased by minimum 13 Lacs. Regarding rent in Baner…it can be 12-13K for 3 BHK….

  467. Lakshmi, If its fine with you, would you be able to educate others as to when (mm/yy) and for what rate did you buy your 3BHK. The reason is that I am also looking for buying a 3 BHK and just as everyone else said, I am waiting for the right time. I have been waiting since 2006, hoping that prices would fall, but unfortunately reality is different. Hope our wait is not too long!! Would really appreciate your input on your property purchase.

  468. I recently got a flat in Baner Pashan area, its a 3 bedroom 3 bath house and the construction gets over in march, I am planning to give it for rent. Whats a realistic rent for that area?? Thanks

  469. I am also working in software and willing to buy a flat. But because of such unrealistic prices I cant afford to have a loan more than 30L on my head and pay almost 50-60L to a bank. I am working to earn money for myself and not to pay it as loan for 20 yrs. :)

  470. The rise in real estate prices was due to a number of reasons. 1.Growth in manufacturing sector because of which steel prices rose. 2.Spending by government on infastructure because of which again steel and cement prices rose. 3.Artificial land scarcity created by builders. 4.Exponential growth in IT Industry 5.Low bank intrest rates Presently, hardly any of the above points remain valid. Manufacturing growth has slowed, Figures have shown that production growth in steel has lessened, ULC act has been repealed, IT industry is growing but not Exponentially.Intrest rates have almost doubled.Considering the above aspects I believe property prices are bound to come down. I have another point here.The recent rupee apreciation has squeezed the margins of software industry to an extent suppose tommorow due to some reason there is trouble in US economy and software companies are compelled to cut the salaries of their employees, how are thease people going to manage the burden of such huge loans ? I’am myself working in software industry but cannot remain blind to such possibilities hidden in the future.

  471. Well the prices have stablised more of less but there is very little chance that it will go down. Though there is probablity that supply will increase due to ULC but there is continous demand from people migrating to Pune. Since companies in Hinjewadi will be incresing their workfoce by 75-100K in next 5 years, there is no downside for real estate prices in near future especially in Hinjeadi, baner, pashan, wakad area. Also increase in material cost such as steel & cement does not allow prices to go down.

  472. Mohan – Saying that “the fallout in credit market globally is bound to effect india in 2008″ is a cop out. Even with the global credit crunch, India is supposed to grow around 8%-9% – so.. there is no direct reason for the realestate market to fall. Of course, it may fall due to other reasons (increase in real estate prices pricing the properties beyond reach is just one of them).

  473. Quite educating analyses by most of the discussion threads. I feel that the sector will see a dip in 2008 and base my prediction in the fallout in the Credit market globally which is bound to effect India in 2008. Most acqusitions are leveraged and lack of cheap credit will dampen demand. Also, exepnditure on food and basic necessities (primary needs) has been a low % of middle class income which led to higher disposal income for consumer durable purchase, higher investment rate (most debt leveraged). 2008 will see the continuing cost spiral with regards to food prices. Fuel prices will also remain high globally which will effect domestic pricing. Thus, real estate prices, especially the medium end, will take a beating. Luxury flats may not get that effected.

  474. Ranjeet, I am not sure how much reality is there in what you are saying…forget not appreciating. My flat that I bought in Salisbury Park in Dec 2006 has exactly doubled…Infact, my builder is not opening some flats for sale even now…He says if I wait for another 3 months and I am getting 25% more, why should I even sell.. I am not sure how recent policy changes will effect the pricing, may be the demand will slow down a tad, but even today the demand is more than double the supply…so I may say it is wishful thinking that prices are not rising…

  475. Hi Ranjeet, Can you tell us the place in Pune where you had seen the flat 6 months back and rates are not went down?? Please read this…..

  476. I read all the comments listed above, but none of all is free from any bias or wilful purpose… Somebody wants dawnfall in prices while some are confused & more concerned about worth of their money already invested. There are lots of reasons for increasing real estate prices in metros whether it may be puna or banglore. Few among those are.. 1. FDI & FII inflow in Indian market( Nearly 70 % is invested in real estate) 2. Link of promoters & politians 3. View of Investment rather than real need. 4. IT boom in India 5. Strong financial growth of middle class this are the major reasons for real estate boom. The same was witnessed in JAPAN & US in nintees decades finally lead to BIG BUBBLE. Now the rates showing something dawnfull from last six months, the actual reasons are 1. IT sector affected a lot by rupee appreciation 2. Real estate crush in US in August,2007 3. Real buyer keeps away from market due to unlogical & unsupportable growth in real estate rates. 4. FIIs moves toward Vietnam, Korea, thailand & malesia. 5. China emerging as strong IT competitor for india forcing low cost for human capital 6. GDP shows dawnfall. 7. More Competition in real estates. 8. Relation between market cap & rent is totally inverse.Due to incresing habit of purchasing own flat rented houses are available at very low prices lead to inverse relationship. This all factors lead to slowdown in real estate market. I saw so much flats in last August in pune suburbs, I have decided to buy one at that time, but due to some reasons I canceled my plan. I revisited same flat in december. same is vacant still & the price still same. Now how much months will he able to remain the same as vacant?? Did Intrest rate factor is not having any worth?? I am sure If I visited hin in next April he will ready to sell the same at actual cost even at loss value. My friend has shared his experience with me. He told me that he book one flat at 2100 even booking rate is 2400.And bulider requested him not to disclose this fact to other ones. AT last outcome is that nobody could keep away real needy person for long time. Just Wait & watch…

  477. Hi All, Nice to see all the comments. One thing it is true that real estate rates are not going to come down even though ULC acts comes into play. As per ULC act the land is going to free in next 3 years and not sure that all the land will be available for immediate construction. Most importantly how common people will get benifitted with this is a question mark. I have seen couple of comments saying that rate has not been raised in last 6 months but it is not correct. Yes, rate has not been raised by 30% in last 6 motnhs as it did in 2006 year, but still it has been raised by 15% and which is not a small hike. I waited 2006 whole year thinking that prices will come down that didn’t happen and finally I bought the rowhouse in eary 2007. To tell you truth in last 6 months rate has been raised by 500/- rs per sq. feet………and now it seems that companies like Microsoft is coming to Pune, people are getting good salaries, IT industry is doing good inspite of rupee appriciation…..so I don’t see a single reason why the real estate market will go down? I may wrong. Please comment on this ro do send me an email to see4dac@gmail.com. –Datta

  478. Trakin, one c35l orrection…1000 sqft at 3500 will make it 35L and not 55L…